- cross-posted to:
- linux@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- linux@lemmy.ml
Like y’all keep posting about it, praising it, giving it free advertisement, and what not.
But the dev is a fascist, the discord server is a fascist bar, and the project thus is fascist.
I’ve met people who were harassed, I browsed through now deleted messages of Vaxry using slurrs and more.
So I wonder is if the people who post constantly about it know and are complicit, or just don’t know and would act otherwise?
It gets tiring to see the project be given “fame” when I know the roots of the plants are founded in toxicity & abuse.
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This is akin to MAGA calling the pope marxist cuz he disagrees with them, some people are so one-dimensional its comical, you cant fight stupidity with stupidity, this is how actual fascists justify all of their extremist views, extremism just encourages extremism on the other side and gives those who are indoctrinated a bigger reason to support their indoctrinators. Tunnel vision is one crazy phenomenon 🤡
Regardless of his views I’ll continue using it and supporting it. People will find anything good and look for a reason to ruin it grow tf up.
American politics genuinely makes me lose braincells, backwards fucking country, MAGA or otherwise
Yes, I’m noticing it’s getting worse as time goes on.
We’re rewarded for our hysteria and punished for going against it.
The main reason why I use open source is precisely because I don’t need or want to worry about this crap. The software is as much property of humanity as it is of the creator, it is basically just knowledge
Absolutely this. Too many people think that because you use some open source software from some fascist dev that “obviously you’re fascist, too”.
Bigotry: obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
Hating on Hyprland users that know what’s going on but still really like the software fits this definition. Plus, isn’t the biggest kick in the face having the exact people you hate use and enjoy your software?
This is exactly why I switched from PolyMC to Prism Launcher. The PolyMC dev was a fascist prick and an anti-gay/trans activist. His fear was that PolyMC was “going to get taken over by the gays due to the name having Poly in it (as in polysexual)”, so he started banning all the devs who disagreed with him or even made a joke about it.
Those devs forked the project and, to rub salt in the wound, made the icon rainbow. But guess what? Its the same software. They forked it because they still liked it and wanted to use it. The software itself had absolutely nothing to do with the dev.
I got the impression that the PolyMC situation was quite different, with that developer masking it and doing a minority of the work, but after one change made by the rest of the developers they snapped, used their control over the repository to remove the rest of the maintainers and take sole control over the repository.
I was aware of some shenanigans and hostility from PolyMC and never used it, but I got the impression there were no major outward signs before that happened?
There really wasn’t a lot of ramp up to it but there were Discord screenshots of his toxic personality being put down in r/feedthebeast at the time and (iirc) one of the devs that actually did do work on the project quoted the whole “poly” thing. Dunno if there was a screen of it, though.
But even before that, there was apparently some horrible stuff that MultiMC did that resulted in PolyMC and other forks in the first place. That whole application has a shady past, tbh.
I’m just trying to say, use Hyprland if you like Hyprland. There WILL be a fork of it someday. That is always guaranteed to happen when a dev becomes a piece of shit. Its all about when it is going to happen, but by all means move over to the fork when it does.
As long as its open source and money does not change hands, you are in no way directly supporting a fascist dev. Once that software is on your PC that software is yours to do what you want with it, not the dev’s. By all means, design your Hyprland as pro-trans with trans flag colors. I endorse that wholeheartedly, in fact. 🏳️⚧️
I just don’t like when people get auto-labeled for something they use or do. Its basic stereotyping and it drives me nuts. A lot of people just don’t want to give the benefit of the doubt to others before even getting to know them. Getting branded because of a piece of software you enjoy is just… its up there, at any rate. I really can’t put words to how frustrated it makes me. I don’t even use Hyprland (I did try it, though). I run KDE because I’m a dirty mouse user. I’m much too smoothbrain for a tiling WM.
This! If it is Free Software, it respects everyone’s freedom. If I don’t like the developer, I will not buy them a coffee. If I don’t like the software practices of the developer, a fork is in order (e.g. Oracle with OpenOffice --> LibreOffice)
Honestly I just stopped caring about developer’s personalities or political views. If you only use products made by nice guys who share your political views you won’t use anything in your life. Not even a phone.
All the VR users that care about this sort of thing better be aware of Oculus’ founder Palmer Luckey too. Their friends will be so sad when they stop showing up in VR chat
Well, I also have some bad news for the users of Apple, Amazon, Alphabet, Meta, Wal-Mart, Microsoft, Verizon, AT&T, Comcast, Target, FedEx, Dell, Lowe’s, General Electric, Proctor & Gamble, IBM, Nvidia, AMD, Cisco, Publix, Intel, HP, United Airlines, Nike, Oracle, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Dow Chemical Company, Best Buy, Cargill, Koch Industries, H-E-B, Love’s, JPMorgan Chase, Johnson & Johnson,
…I could go on.
Don’t you dare speak ill of HEB.
Luckey hasn’t had anything to do with Oculus in years.
Uhh if they cared about that they wouldn’t be using a meta owned headset in the first place. Palmer luckey sold oculus to facebook a decade ago
I’m just on the topic of people using tech from a morally compromised creator without being aware. Also idk about how transfering ownership absolves the sin. Even if it wasn’t meta that bought it but instead some ethical company it’s still riding on the shoulders of a giant (piece of shit).
Don’t really get the down votes, maybe VR is a sore spot?
your argument is a bit extreme, it doesn’t need to only be software from nice folks, it just needs to not be software made by not nice folks
apart from sqlite, i think everything is replaceable with a bit of compromise
what things made by not nice folks are you locked into?
I agree with the sentiment of supporting nice folks, especially in the FOSS ecosystem.
What OS are you going to use on your Smartphone if you remove software from Google and Apple? What VR headset are you going to use? What telecom are you going to use? Are you only going to shop in local food markets? Lemmy’s creators are also biggots, yet here we are…
I financially support projects and people I like, but I use whatever software I enjoy using. FOSS, closed source, made by a nice guy, bad guy. If I feel my experience is good I’ll use that, if something better appears along the way I’ll move on. I don’t want to be a cop and background check the political views of whoever created all the software, hardware, services, movies, books, etc I use. I’d do nothing else with my life.
what os are you going to use on your smartphone if you remove software from google and apple?
aosp, fdroid, no gservices
what VR headset
not into vr so can’t say
what telecom
sadly, not a good one. i wish i had a choice, but this isn’t software
are you only shopping in local food markets?
sort of? i get fresh stuff from actual markets when i can and when i go for groceries i avoid ultra processed stuff from big multinationals, making sure of the provenance and the maker of the stuff i get, supermarkets also sell stuff from local producers
lemmy creators are bigots
eh, im still leeching off some other person hosting, im not going to host lemmy and im slowly making my own thing
also can you provide examples? i heard it multiple times, I’m not contesting it, just kinda want to see myself, like with vaxry, and not only trust second hand accusations
i don’t want to be a cop and background check
no absolutely fine i don’t check all my software too, but when i hear a callout i dont hide behind “art and artist” mentality and move off the bigot’s stuff
While aosp with microg is a step into the right direction, it’s not Google free. Most android code is made by Google and streamed to aosp.
So you think people must only use software made by nice guys but you can use hardware, services, books, movies, etc. from whoever? What makes software so special?
You’re not hosting a lemmy instance but here we adding content, and therefore value, to the platform. I don’t host hyprland either, I am leeching off the entire devs work for zero dollars. Does that make it okay now?
I give more importance to qualities like open source, safety, privacy and performance other than who supports trump or not.
What OS are you going to use on your Smartphone if you remove software from Google and Apple?
People in the FOSS community constantly talk about the best ways to minimise use of Google, Apple and Microsoft products. That is an absolutely valid motivation for choosing to use one project over another.
If someone is willing to use the behaviour of a company or its owners as a factor when choosing a software stack, presumably it’s valid to apply the same sentiment to development teams of smaller projects too.
I’ve gone though the Degoogle journey myself but there’s just no way to run a phone without software made by jerks. And that’s one example.
You can use whatever criteria you want yo pick software, that’s fair. I don’t tend to include politics and personality into the equation myself but I’m not imposing anyone to do the same.
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Don’t say nobody cares. I care. Fuck fascists.
Wow, the moment someone who drives a critical opinion gets upvoted, comment gets removed
It had misinformation, Rule 2. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Repeat after me:
“You do not support a project or its dev in any way by just using the software you got for free.”
In fact, unless you donate, advertize or contribute to the project, you’re a net drain on its resources.
I don’t disagree exactly, but I’d argue that you’re contributing to the project even if you’re just reporting bugs or helping others with it on e.g. Lemmy.
I could see avoiding all of that pragmatically in order to use some obscure, critical software, but not something you use every day and for which there are reasonable alternatives.
Great, so you agree with OP, who was criticizing people who are:
posting about it, praising it, giving it free advertisement, and what not
After reading a lot of the material I am not convinced the hyprland dev can reasonably be called a “fascist”.
It’s an interesting story, though.
WDYM? because being a bigot is not the sams as being a fascist?
yeah actually communist bigots exist, as do Anarcho bigots
yes. and catholic conservatives and neoliberals and social democrats whatnot
thanks for the downvotes. i would still like an answer to my questions
Vaxry is not a very smart guy. He originally got a wrist slap by FDO saying don’t do your toxic shit here. Then he followed it up by going postal on the FDO mailing list. Then he put up a blog post where he was like like “SJWs are coming for me”.
https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-inclusiveActivists
The entire argument is that you can’t make an exclusionary space for people (no definition of what that means) but you should be able to call them slurs. Who would want anything to do with him? He should have gone full tilt and made a list of slurs you should be allowed to say beyond just arguing for the R-slur. That would have really convinced people he’s not an extremely toxic right wing weirdo.
https://blog.vaxry.net/articles/2023-hyprlandsCommunity
This was his non-apology where he says “lets be real” a lot which is a common way of just ignoring a criticism and then he follows it up with, I should have banned that user instead of doing what I did.
Asking for professionalism in the OSS community is not a huge deal. It’s also quite literally not even about the code AFAIR Drew Devault is still taking Vaxry’s patches. He just doesn’t want him in the community starting shit with people.
The “paradox of tolerance” is a concept I love to bring up time and time again.
No tolerance for the intolerant, lest intolerants take over tolerant spaces and turn them intolerant.
Social contract not a moral imperative.
Or seen as a repeated prisoners dilemma, play tit-for-tat, or maybe (N*tit)-for-tat (where N gives a ‘punitive’ damages expectation for breching the accepted norms).
Quite a lot of lefties don’t like thinking about what is “rational” though because “people aren’t cognitively rational” so rationality based social equilibia can obviously never have any relevance.
Can you elaborate on the last part of your comment? I’m not sure I fully understand, though it sounds like we mostly agree.
I’m not sure why you threw in that digression about political leaning at the end, though. It makes your last statement pretty vague.
I don’t see it as a paradox, but as rational. But there are people who I think do hold tolerance as some sort of moral compulsion, and get offended by the notion that it might just emerge from people figuring out how and why to cooperate, without any high and mighty guiding morality.
These people will also object to using rational models to understand/describe human behaviours, because they can point to many examples of people acting irrationally. Many of these examples are psychology lab “experiments” so are irrelevant to the real world. But plenty of real examples of things like loss aversion and risk (mis)percepion, sunk costs, time-inconsistent decisions and so on where individuals clearly do behave “irrationally”.
I often come across people who believe that this undermines anything any “rational model” has to say. And so I do try to use such reasoning with those people, or even challenge those observations with examples where collective rationality does seem to emerge as a social (not individual) phenomenon, then I’ll be derided as some sort of neo-conservative capitalist fascist or whatever.
So I find that it’s generally good practice to chuck in some insult about one type of political zealot or other every so often, so as to quickly establish where I stand. I’d rather be vague than waste my breath with zealots.
Nikola Tesla and Thomas Edison could have both had kids in their basement, would that stop me from using electricity absolutely fucking not, someone invents something I like, and is useful to me, I use it, I don’t fucking care what he thinks about anything, he could be best mates with fucking Kanye and make music about how he fucked his cousin, I’d still use it, it’s open source and useful, he works on it full time from what it seems and maintains it for himself and not you lot and your huge fucking egos who think everything revolves around you. He wanted to make something he’d find useful and decided to share it with the world.
Would you stop using anything mass manufactured, just because Henry Ford, who did in fact have actual Nazi ideals, hated Jews and worker’s rights, invented the conveyor belt, and call anybody that uses mass manufactured items a fascist?
i hate to be a pedant (who am i kidding, i love to be) but they didn’t really invent electricity, so much as discover it and improve on existing technologies. ben franklin was writing about lightning rods a century before. also autoerotic asphyxiation. that’s true, look it up.
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Vaxry’s a shitbird and I’m glad people aren’t quiet about it. “It’s just software, why does everyone make it political”, mfer software is inherently political. FOSS even more so. You can use whatever you want, but that doesn’t shield you from contributing to a fash asshole’s power within the community. If you’re comfy with that, I’m just as comfy calling you out for letting the Nazi into the bar
You call man a bigot and you make a drama publicly because you can’t stand how he can have a different opinion or way of living than you, right? Guess that makes you… a bigot? 😉
I made myself a promise to donate to Hyprland and Vaxry every time I see bad press against him. And I just made another payment. He makes good software and this is something he should concentrate on and just like many others on this thread: I don’t care if he has one opinion or the other. You don’t like it? Just don’t engage with him, his Discord or Hyprland, let the guy have his space.
Or make another bad press and make me donate again, I’ll happily do that💪🏻
You also donate to the KKK? How’s your investment in anti-trans communities going so far, what’s the ROI? Happy with all the hatred you are fueling?
If you honestly throw KKK and Vaxry into the same bucket then I guess it speaks for yourself: as for me, I’m not going deeper into conversation if this is how it starts ¯_(ツ)_/¯
I didn’t do it. He did that himself, he [pretty much, in other words] said:
“I’m fine with a genocidal transphobe homophobe racist antisemite literal murderer being welcomed of my software community if he was alive now. As long as he keeps his crimes against humanity off the main focus: my project and my project alone.”
Owning the libs by giving a fascist transphobe all my money
I wouldn’t’ve gunned down those minors from ethnic minorities if the leftist SJWs didn’t have so many pronouns!!!
Im looking forward to the full release of cosmic as I dont want to keep using hyprland. Sadly theming is incomplete and it’ll be a while before good themes get released.
Fuck hyprland
All my homies hate hyprland
Find a better cause than this nothing burger. Literally nothing better to do but complain about some old discussion. God forbid you forgive and move on. No you said something that offended me years ago and I will not forgive such a terrible transgression. This 'look at me" posting is so tiring. Look at how great I am. Don’t worry everyone I’ll fall on the sword and call out the bad people.
but complain about some old discussion
I wouldnt think 2 years is old, and its not like he changed his mind since then, in any capacity. what he did can’t really be forgiven, except if you don’t care about the safety of your peers. yes, I said safety, because people like vaxry often find joy in harming… anyone they don’t like.
How long is enough, apologies dont matter either right? If you actually spend the time to read the infraction and response you’ll see people are just bored and looking to make themselves feel important by randomly posting stuff like this unprompted.
How long is enough,
well 2 years is obviously not old. 5 maybe.
apologies dont matter either right?
as I remember their “apology” was a very unnatural, visibly forced and offended thing
Forgive my ignorance, but what did he do?
Friends don’t let friends use the shitty fash compositor <3
Friend shouldn’t control what you do, but ok…
Nobody said that, don’t put words in my mouth <3
