That’s basically it afaik. Chess has been around long enough that it was originally man’s game, then they started letting women compete but only against other women. The reason why I don’t think there’s been a significant challenge to it is that with physical competitions often being segregated, I don’t think anyone really stopped and thought about the fact that the segregation is pointless. I think they were just like, “competitions are usually segregated by gender, makes sense for chess to be segregated” without stopping to think about why competitions are usually segregated.
However, I’m not a huge chess person. I liked it as a kid but it doesn’t even remotely appeal to me anymore. So my info might be wrong, and if there are any chess historians who want to correct me, go for it!
I’ve also heard that some women prefer this system, that the chance of them being harassed is much lower in a segregated environment. I am also not a chess guy, but having been to many Magic tourneys, I can totally understand the thought process.
Definitely. I never participated in any MTG tourneys because just the harassment I faced in the shops and from local players was enough. It’s much better today, though. But you still have the problem that when girls and women avoid playing with boys and men (often for good reason) you will always have less growth in that specific group.
True, the only women I ever saw at those events were there with their boyfriends, and even then, not enthusiastic about it. Might be why Magic’s dying now, there’s a whole half of the population they forgot about.
I think what also reinforces this cycle is external and internal(!) stereotypes.
Additionally, because you have fewer strong female players, and since they segregate the game, you therefore also have fewer strong female teachers and role models.
There is also a very strange dynamic between kids and teens starting in elementary school where the boys often drive out the girls from specific activities. It’s only anecdotal but I’ve seen it twice here in my neighborhood. In the school and in the community center a higher ranked chess player offeres free courses to teach the kids chess.
None of the girls stay when they are offered a more friendly environment like the dance class. Because you will always have a group of boys socialised to be more aggressive (pulling hair, being ultra competitive, etc.) and girls being socialised to rather avoid conflict. I know many boys also don’t like this atmosphere but they will be more like “I need to be more like the other boys since I am a boy” while the girls we be like “I don’t fit in here since I am a girl”.
You have nothing to apologize for! But I understand that feeling of feeling obligated to apologize for expressing your emotions, especially passionate ones, especially when it’s a topic like this. Too many people have the weirdest, shitty reactions to stuff like this.
It was a spot-on rant and it helps me feel seen and understood and I appreciate you for it.
I’m not 100% sure but I don’t think chess is segregated - women are allowed to play in the top tournaments. There are additional women-only tournaments which are an attempt to make chess more attractive to them.
Preteen girls completely destroy there male same age opponents. For professional female chessplayers that is when there in their prime and it deceases in adulthood.
This became a self reinforcing cycle as women who used to be high ranked just stopped playing later on, which is one of the reasons the extra titles for women where invented. An attempt to offset this difference.
Of course by now we are also well aware that male centric spaces can be super toxic to women and this affects motivation and willingness to be involved. We have to remember that before the internet the only way to play was in person.
Women allowed to compete with the men, and they do. This thread is nuts.
There are women’s competitions because the unrestricted competitions are still dominated by men, and the restricted tournaments allow us to acknowledge the best women to generate excitement for chess from other women. To show them that there are women excelling at this game.
Why was it separated in the first place? Was there any reason besides woman bad?
That’s basically it afaik. Chess has been around long enough that it was originally man’s game, then they started letting women compete but only against other women. The reason why I don’t think there’s been a significant challenge to it is that with physical competitions often being segregated, I don’t think anyone really stopped and thought about the fact that the segregation is pointless. I think they were just like, “competitions are usually segregated by gender, makes sense for chess to be segregated” without stopping to think about why competitions are usually segregated.
However, I’m not a huge chess person. I liked it as a kid but it doesn’t even remotely appeal to me anymore. So my info might be wrong, and if there are any chess historians who want to correct me, go for it!
I’ve also heard that some women prefer this system, that the chance of them being harassed is much lower in a segregated environment. I am also not a chess guy, but having been to many Magic tourneys, I can totally understand the thought process.
sigh Yeah, I hadn’t thought about that, but that sounds about in line with what I’ve heard about male chess masters.
Definitely. I never participated in any MTG tourneys because just the harassment I faced in the shops and from local players was enough. It’s much better today, though. But you still have the problem that when girls and women avoid playing with boys and men (often for good reason) you will always have less growth in that specific group.
True, the only women I ever saw at those events were there with their boyfriends, and even then, not enthusiastic about it. Might be why Magic’s dying now, there’s a whole half of the population they forgot about.
I think what also reinforces this cycle is external and internal(!) stereotypes.
Additionally, because you have fewer strong female players, and since they segregate the game, you therefore also have fewer strong female teachers and role models.
There is also a very strange dynamic between kids and teens starting in elementary school where the boys often drive out the girls from specific activities. It’s only anecdotal but I’ve seen it twice here in my neighborhood. In the school and in the community center a higher ranked chess player offeres free courses to teach the kids chess.
None of the girls stay when they are offered a more friendly environment like the dance class. Because you will always have a group of boys socialised to be more aggressive (pulling hair, being ultra competitive, etc.) and girls being socialised to rather avoid conflict. I know many boys also don’t like this atmosphere but they will be more like “I need to be more like the other boys since I am a boy” while the girls we be like “I don’t fit in here since I am a girl”.
Sorry for the rant.
You have nothing to apologize for! But I understand that feeling of feeling obligated to apologize for expressing your emotions, especially passionate ones, especially when it’s a topic like this. Too many people have the weirdest, shitty reactions to stuff like this.
It was a spot-on rant and it helps me feel seen and understood and I appreciate you for it.
I’m not 100% sure but I don’t think chess is segregated - women are allowed to play in the top tournaments. There are additional women-only tournaments which are an attempt to make chess more attractive to them.
Theres also a thing with it relating to age.
Preteen girls completely destroy there male same age opponents. For professional female chessplayers that is when there in their prime and it deceases in adulthood.
This became a self reinforcing cycle as women who used to be high ranked just stopped playing later on, which is one of the reasons the extra titles for women where invented. An attempt to offset this difference.
Of course by now we are also well aware that male centric spaces can be super toxic to women and this affects motivation and willingness to be involved. We have to remember that before the internet the only way to play was in person.
Women allowed to compete with the men, and they do. This thread is nuts.
There are women’s competitions because the unrestricted competitions are still dominated by men, and the restricted tournaments allow us to acknowledge the best women to generate excitement for chess from other women. To show them that there are women excelling at this game.