Every time… No, Steam is not DRM. I mean, technically it is, but if you consider Steam DRM you must also consider every other game store DRM.
Usually when we talk about Drams we’re talking about things that try to prevent copyright infringement, steam does not do that. It does offers an API which games can implement which has a naive form of DRM, but games are not forced to use it, and a lot of games don’t. More often than not you can simply copy the game folder from steam to another computer without steam and run the game there, therefore no DRM.
you’re wrong. steam absolutely is DRM and works exactly as such. but it’s not mandatory, and there are games that opt to not use steam DRM. so there are many DRM-free games on Steam, more than a thousand at this point, but also many times more that can’t be launched without Steam.
There’s a HUGE difference between a platform having optional DRM and a platform being DRM. Also it’s not opt-out, it’s opt-in, so by default games don’t have it, if they do it’s because someone on the game studio decided to add it, Valve does not force it or even encourage it, they just have it available.
It’s very unfair to say “Steam is DRM”, and a more accurate description is what I used “Steam has optional DRM”.
no there isn’t. DRM games to DRM free game ratio is like 40:1. it doesn’t matter if it’s opt in. steam’s a DRM software. that’s what lead to it being so popular with developers and publishers in the first place. if they didn’t have it things would probably have gone a different way. it would probably have fewer games total than i currently have in my library.
If for every 41 games that had Denuevo one didn’t had DRM Denuevo wouldn’t be a DRM software. However Denuevo is a DRM software, a game cannot both have Denuevo and not have DRM, however a game can be on Steam and not have DRM, therefore Steam is not DRM.
Btw, I think the ratio is way off, the vast majority of games on steam are Indy which don’t usually integrate with DRM.
so there are many DRM-free games on Steam, more than a thousand at this point, but also many times more that can’t be launched without Steam.
Steam is pretty lenient with their offline mode tbh. What I don’t like is when I launch a game from Steam library and it prompts for login to some other launcher.
As a publisher, what is the data that Sony can get from forcing the PS account that they can’t get from Steam? I assume Steam provides all the relevant data to the publishers already?
as with almost every such case, they want you in their ecosystem. some benefits here and there, some in game extras, maybe some discounts, and you’re hopefully now invested in their service, which means you’re more likely to consider their games over others, since you might now consider the extra benefits you get from playing their games … stuff like that.
I’m not saying steam isn’t more costumer friendly than most other DRM; in just saying that claiming it isn’t one or that you can play any steam game without Steam is flat out wrong.
claiming […] you can play any steam game without Steam is flat out wrong.
You should go inform yourself, many games on steam can be played without steam. I’ve even shared my copy of a game with a bunch of friends and we all played together in LAN, with a single copy of a Steam game, and only I had steam installed since this was at work.
Steam does not enforce games to require steam, it is not a requirement, it’s available for those who want to use it.
Writing is hard, huh? According to the dictionary Any means “some, or even the smallest amount or number of”, therefore “you can play any steam game without steam” means “you can play even the smallest amount or number of steam games on steam”, or in other words “you can play one steam game without steam”. And like I said you can in fact play more than one steam games without steam, therefore you’re wrong.
oh my god. reading is hard. “you can play any game without Steam” means no matter which game. which is patently false. there are more DRM games on steam than DRM-free ones. so if you pick any game at random, the odds are against you.
“Any” has those two meanings, the fact that you chose an ambiguous phrasing is your fault, and the fact you haven’t apologized while making clear what you meant, but in fact doubled down in the aggressive tone tells a lot about you.
Also the phrase doesn’t mean what you think it does, you should have said"you can play all games on steam without steam", which would be correct, not all games can be played without seam, but some can, you yourself recognize this when you say that the odds are against me when picking a random game, therefore there is a chance. And this is the thing that seems hard to comprehend to everyone who claims steam is DRM, they that same phrasing with Denuevo or other actual DRM things and you’ll see why it’s bullshit.
In other words, a software is DRM if and only if every game that contains it is DRM protected. Let’s go back to logic school: if A then B is negated as A and not B, for example"If a dog then an animal" is true, so the negation would be false: “dog and not an animal” is in fact a contradiction. Or on the other side “if animal then dog” is false, so the negation animal and not a dog" must be possible, and indeed it is.
In this case what you’re stating is that steam is DRM which means “if it’s on steam then it’s DRM protected”, that statement is false because the negation"game on steam and no DRM" is possible. On the other hand “if it has Denuevo is DRM protected is true” and the negation “has Denuevo and is no DRM” is an impossibility.
Because if you consider Steam to be DRM by the same token you also consider itch and GoG and any way of buying games DRM, which makes the term almost meaningless since companies should be allowed to charge for their products.
Having to sign in to something to play your games is a DRM, that’s definitely steam. Don’t think it fully extends to GOG since once you’ve downloaded the games you don’t even need their client or to ever reconnect to their servers ever again.
If people complain about having to sign into psn to play a game they should also complain about facing to sign into steam is what I’m saying. They always seem to get preferable treatment when it comes to this stuff that it makes it seem like everyone wants them to become (or stay - depending on how you feel about it) a monopoly.
You must sign into steam the same way you must sign in to GoG, i.e. to download the game the first time. After that you can just run the binary. In fact you can copy that binary to another computer without steam to play there. However Steam is not against DRM, therefore some games there do have DRM and need either steam or in this case PSN to run.
That’s an important thing, games CAN use steam as DRM, but they’re not forced to, so there are games in Steam without DRM, therefore Steam is not a DRM by definition.
I could’ve sworn I’ve definitely had issues trying to run steam games elsewhere in the past. For example I have a retro XP gaming PC and what a few failed attempts I had to assume any steam game was just not going to work. Guess I was just doing it wrong then maybe
Not necessarily your fault, some games make the steam library a hard requirement by not implementing safe guards against it not being present. Others use some of the API there to ensure the game is owned and steam is logged in, but that’s not enforced by steam, so if a game doesn’t work without steam it’s by design of the game devs.
Yes, in the sense that every store online is a digital right management, but people wouldn’t consider itch or GoG DRMs, and if you go to this level of what DRM is it becomes impossible to sell software, because the mere fact of having someplace that allows some people access to something and others not it’s a form of DRM.
Did you actually tried to launch the game? What error did you get? What game was it?
Steam launcher is not needed unless the game is programmed to fail if it doesn’t detect steam, not all games do, it’s usually a sign of a badly programmed game. Also the game might have had other DRMs.
But for example grab Crusader Kings or Stellatirs which tries to use the steam API bit if it fails it just keeps going without, and you can copy it to another computer and play without steam installed.
Every time… No, Steam is not DRM. I mean, technically it is, but if you consider Steam DRM you must also consider every other game store DRM.
Usually when we talk about Drams we’re talking about things that try to prevent copyright infringement, steam does not do that. It does offers an API which games can implement which has a naive form of DRM, but games are not forced to use it, and a lot of games don’t. More often than not you can simply copy the game folder from steam to another computer without steam and run the game there, therefore no DRM.
you’re wrong. steam absolutely is DRM and works exactly as such. but it’s not mandatory, and there are games that opt to not use steam DRM. so there are many DRM-free games on Steam, more than a thousand at this point, but also many times more that can’t be launched without Steam.
There’s a HUGE difference between a platform having optional DRM and a platform being DRM. Also it’s not opt-out, it’s opt-in, so by default games don’t have it, if they do it’s because someone on the game studio decided to add it, Valve does not force it or even encourage it, they just have it available.
It’s very unfair to say “Steam is DRM”, and a more accurate description is what I used “Steam has optional DRM”.
no there isn’t. DRM games to DRM free game ratio is like 40:1. it doesn’t matter if it’s opt in. steam’s a DRM software. that’s what lead to it being so popular with developers and publishers in the first place. if they didn’t have it things would probably have gone a different way. it would probably have fewer games total than i currently have in my library.
If for every 41 games that had Denuevo one didn’t had DRM Denuevo wouldn’t be a DRM software. However Denuevo is a DRM software, a game cannot both have Denuevo and not have DRM, however a game can be on Steam and not have DRM, therefore Steam is not DRM.
Btw, I think the ratio is way off, the vast majority of games on steam are Indy which don’t usually integrate with DRM.
Steam is pretty lenient with their offline mode tbh. What I don’t like is when I launch a game from Steam library and it prompts for login to some other launcher.
As a publisher, what is the data that Sony can get from forcing the PS account that they can’t get from Steam? I assume Steam provides all the relevant data to the publishers already?
as with almost every such case, they want you in their ecosystem. some benefits here and there, some in game extras, maybe some discounts, and you’re hopefully now invested in their service, which means you’re more likely to consider their games over others, since you might now consider the extra benefits you get from playing their games … stuff like that.
I’m not saying steam isn’t more costumer friendly than most other DRM; in just saying that claiming it isn’t one or that you can play any steam game without Steam is flat out wrong.
You should go inform yourself, many games on steam can be played without steam. I’ve even shared my copy of a game with a bunch of friends and we all played together in LAN, with a single copy of a Steam game, and only I had steam installed since this was at work.
Steam does not enforce games to require steam, it is not a requirement, it’s available for those who want to use it.
reading is hard eh? guess what “any” means.
Writing is hard, huh? According to the dictionary Any means “some, or even the smallest amount or number of”, therefore “you can play any steam game without steam” means “you can play even the smallest amount or number of steam games on steam”, or in other words “you can play one steam game without steam”. And like I said you can in fact play more than one steam games without steam, therefore you’re wrong.
oh my god. reading is hard. “you can play any game without Steam” means no matter which game. which is patently false. there are more DRM games on steam than DRM-free ones. so if you pick any game at random, the odds are against you.
“Any” has those two meanings, the fact that you chose an ambiguous phrasing is your fault, and the fact you haven’t apologized while making clear what you meant, but in fact doubled down in the aggressive tone tells a lot about you.
Also the phrase doesn’t mean what you think it does, you should have said"you can play all games on steam without steam", which would be correct, not all games can be played without seam, but some can, you yourself recognize this when you say that the odds are against me when picking a random game, therefore there is a chance. And this is the thing that seems hard to comprehend to everyone who claims steam is DRM, they that same phrasing with Denuevo or other actual DRM things and you’ll see why it’s bullshit.
In other words, a software is DRM if and only if every game that contains it is DRM protected. Let’s go back to logic school:
if A then Bis negated asA and not B, for example"If a dog then an animal" is true, so the negation would be false: “dog and not an animal” is in fact a contradiction. Or on the other side “if animal then dog” is false, so the negation animal and not a dog" must be possible, and indeed it is.In this case what you’re stating is that steam is DRM which means “if it’s on steam then it’s DRM protected”, that statement is false because the negation"game on steam and no DRM" is possible. On the other hand “if it has Denuevo is DRM protected is true” and the negation “has Denuevo and is no DRM” is an impossibility.
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I do. I don’t understand why people get up in a tiff about one DRM when they advocate for another.
Because if you consider Steam to be DRM by the same token you also consider itch and GoG and any way of buying games DRM, which makes the term almost meaningless since companies should be allowed to charge for their products.
Having to sign in to something to play your games is a DRM, that’s definitely steam. Don’t think it fully extends to GOG since once you’ve downloaded the games you don’t even need their client or to ever reconnect to their servers ever again.
If people complain about having to sign into psn to play a game they should also complain about facing to sign into steam is what I’m saying. They always seem to get preferable treatment when it comes to this stuff that it makes it seem like everyone wants them to become (or stay - depending on how you feel about it) a monopoly.
You must sign into steam the same way you must sign in to GoG, i.e. to download the game the first time. After that you can just run the binary. In fact you can copy that binary to another computer without steam to play there. However Steam is not against DRM, therefore some games there do have DRM and need either steam or in this case PSN to run.
That’s an important thing, games CAN use steam as DRM, but they’re not forced to, so there are games in Steam without DRM, therefore Steam is not a DRM by definition.
I could’ve sworn I’ve definitely had issues trying to run steam games elsewhere in the past. For example I have a retro XP gaming PC and what a few failed attempts I had to assume any steam game was just not going to work. Guess I was just doing it wrong then maybe
Not necessarily your fault, some games make the steam library a hard requirement by not implementing safe guards against it not being present. Others use some of the API there to ensure the game is owned and steam is logged in, but that’s not enforced by steam, so if a game doesn’t work without steam it’s by design of the game devs.
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Yes, in the sense that every store online is a digital right management, but people wouldn’t consider itch or GoG DRMs, and if you go to this level of what DRM is it becomes impossible to sell software, because the mere fact of having someplace that allows some people access to something and others not it’s a form of DRM.
Had Void musl on my notebook, was in vacation. Wine worked on there but proprietary Steam launcher (which is still needed, offline or not) did not.
Did you actually tried to launch the game? What error did you get? What game was it?
Steam launcher is not needed unless the game is programmed to fail if it doesn’t detect steam, not all games do, it’s usually a sign of a badly programmed game. Also the game might have had other DRMs.
But for example grab Crusader Kings or Stellatirs which tries to use the steam API bit if it fails it just keeps going without, and you can copy it to another computer and play without steam installed.