Do you want a bunch of marijuana smokers on public transit with you? Exposing others to the dangerous smoke and causing such a noxious odor? Even if you ban cars they still are too impaired for things like bikes which cannot be easily done away with.
“Mass shooters at Rep. Gabby Giffords’s constituent meeting in Tucson, Ariz. (2011), a movie theater in Aurora, Colo. (2012), the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, Fla. (2016), the First Baptist church in Sutherland Springs, Texas (2017), and Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla. (2018), were reported to be marijuana users.” (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9462911/). They are apt to commit violent crimes beyond just what they do on the roads.
i think this is the only time in my life i’ve ever encountered someone who isn’t an arch conservative try to make the claim that weed contributes to sexual assault (per your argument elsewhere in the thread) and mass murder. did your parents leave you in a locked room with nothing but reefer madness for entertainment as a kid or something?
No, I look at the actual evidence that marijuana causes violence in things like domestic abuse (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7525024/) as well as being tied to bipolar disorder and schizophrenia (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7084484), both of which cause violent actions. I think that we should support users in trying to get off it and focus on education rather than criminalization but it is dangerous none-the-less.
correlation doesn’t equal causation. weed is very popular and used hundreds of millions of times every day, of course it will be co-existing with all the realities of the world. It doesn’t mean that it causes them.
It causes slower reaction times. People still attempt to drive/ride a bike even with alcohol so they will likely do so with marijuana. There is substantial evidence tying its usage to violence and mental illness. That is reason enough to oppose it
So you also advocate making alchool illegal? (overwhelming evidence of alcohol contributing to violence, domestic of otherwise) Note how I wrote “contribute” and not cause.
Human behavioural problems are complicated as well as their causes. Blaming them solely on substances is dishonest and steers us away from the real causes.
We aren’t discussing alcohol. I obviously oppose it and also support criminalizing it with fierce aggression but that’s completely irrelevant to this discussion, there are many other things I also support criminalizing
as someone who suffers pretty frequent migraines i can agree that it’s no fun when people are stinky in public. you don’t hear me calling for a ban on perfumes, colognes, axe body spray (showing my age here probably) etc, etc, etc.
in my experience it was mostly used by assholes to tear gas a whole locker room by puncturing the can and then blockading the door so no one can escape
Yes, so does lack of sleep. Put anyone in jail who pulls an all nighter. By your arguments, we should have sleep monitors on every single person since you think we should be drug testing the entire population constantly. Anybody who refuses the sleep monitors or who doesn’t get a good nights rest will be put into mandatory “sleep rehabilitation”. If they refuse, they go to jail to be enslaved to do dangerous work for no money.
It’s weird you can’t see that just because “not sleeping is unhealthy” and “you shouldn’t drive while tired” are both true statements, you can’t make that into law without becoming a freakish draconian tyranny.
if someone is driving while high then they should face consequences, but otherwise no crime has been committed. You can’t just do pre-crime to justify your views. Something can’t be made illegal because someone might later do something different that is illegal.
How do you prevent that? Look at alcohol and how many people drive drunk. Marijuana can remain in your system for over 24 hours (even longer possibly) and many people will drive a car/a bike/go out in public. Not to mention that marijuana is often used in sexual assaults (https://adai.uw.edu/pubs/pdf/2017mj_sexualassault.pdf). I think that users deserve treatment and support rather than just off to prison but that shouldn’t make us act like the drug is some good benefit to society.
Banning alcohol absolutely should be done and has only failed due to half-assed enforcement and lack of social support. We should be supporting addicts with treatment centers and educating on the harms. That is the best way to eliminate it.
Not only that, but banning alcohol made it more dangerous because moonshiners and bootleggers resorted to making more and more potent alcohol for transport discretely. The same thing is happening with opioids now. The rise in fentanyl is precisely because it’s more potent so it gets concentrated and easier to smuggle and then dilute/cut at its destination, but then of course people start doing the uncut/pure stuff and die.
I am not currently arguing that as that is not the subject being discussed on this post, but yes, I do support banning alcohol and think it absolutely should be a goal to eliminate all of these useless materials that lead only to death of innocent individuals, abuse, and crime.
Well no, if you wanted to keep the discussion to marijuana then you should have stuck to actual criticisms of the drug instead of criticising potential consequences of misuse, which can apply to a lot of things. Driving unimpaired also kills innocent people, do you think driving should be banned?
Can we eliminate misuse? We have to look at it in the real word and the real word shows that misuse would occur like it does with alcohol. Unless misuse could be prevented then marijuana ought to be kept illegal.
Can we eliminate the negative consequences of a war on drugs? We have to look at in the real world and the real world shows that wars on drugs create huge slave labor prison systems for victimless crimes. Unless capitalism has been abolished then drugs wars ought to be opposed
When did I say that we should oppose it in that way? I am saying that marijuana is a social ill. And that it ought to be opposed. It should be opposed by going after distributors, education, and social support for users while also aiming to disrupt the social norms that encourage it. Marijuana is and has been illegal and opposed in many AES states as well for example.
there’s no other way to oppose it without harsh criminalization. If the punishments are light slaps on the wrists then people will just continue doing it, but in unregulated black markets with more criminal elements.
All you do is hand over an ever increasing marketshare to criminal organizations. If you attempt to crack down hard on those organizations, you get a drug war. Congratulations, you have just understood history of drugs and why your opinions are that of an ancient reactionary
Drug war in the United States focused on the end consumer and was often more about targeting minorities than the drug. Harsh criminalization for distributors is best while making it nearly impossible to attain and education users (and parents) about the dangers. Combined with random drug tests and free treatment centers we can end drug addiction.
Who is advocating letting people drive high? Just like with alcohol, it should have a time and a place and it should be a crime to operate a vehicle under its influence.
If a substance is legal then people will drive on it. Look at it when it comes to alcohol. Drunk driving is illegal but thousands still do it constantly
Except it is effectively legal. When a group of chickens are sick a farmer will cull them. We need the same thing for these addicts. The issue is that they walk and spread the disease of addiction even after doing this
The actual damage that it does do through impaired driving causes actual damage through killing innocent people as well as contributes to laziness.
distracted driving impairs your ability to operate a vehicle significantly, better ban
talking topassengers!or you know. just invest in public transit instead and ban cars.
Do you want a bunch of marijuana smokers on public transit with you? Exposing others to the dangerous smoke and causing such a noxious odor? Even if you ban cars they still are too impaired for things like bikes which cannot be easily done away with.
“Mass shooters at Rep. Gabby Giffords’s constituent meeting in Tucson, Ariz. (2011), a movie theater in Aurora, Colo. (2012), the Pulse nightclub in Orlando, Fla. (2016), the First Baptist church in Sutherland Springs, Texas (2017), and Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla. (2018), were reported to be marijuana users.” (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9462911/). They are apt to commit violent crimes beyond just what they do on the roads.
i think this is the only time in my life i’ve ever encountered someone who isn’t an arch conservative try to make the claim that weed contributes to sexual assault (per your argument elsewhere in the thread) and mass murder. did your parents leave you in a locked room with nothing but reefer madness for entertainment as a kid or something?
No, I look at the actual evidence that marijuana causes violence in things like domestic abuse (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7525024/) as well as being tied to bipolar disorder and schizophrenia (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7084484), both of which cause violent actions. I think that we should support users in trying to get off it and focus on education rather than criminalization but it is dangerous none-the-less.
correlation doesn’t equal causation. weed is very popular and used hundreds of millions of times every day, of course it will be co-existing with all the realities of the world. It doesn’t mean that it causes them.
It causes slower reaction times. People still attempt to drive/ride a bike even with alcohol so they will likely do so with marijuana. There is substantial evidence tying its usage to violence and mental illness. That is reason enough to oppose it
No it isn’t and you’re a fascist boomer who is pro child-enslavement. That is the logical endpoint of making weed illegal, we already saw it.
Or…they could just not sell things that kill people. Sorry, I didn’t realize that every AES state is “pro child-enslavement”.
So you also advocate making alchool illegal? (overwhelming evidence of alcohol contributing to violence, domestic of otherwise) Note how I wrote “contribute” and not cause.
Human behavioural problems are complicated as well as their causes. Blaming them solely on substances is dishonest and steers us away from the real causes.
We aren’t discussing alcohol. I obviously oppose it and also support criminalizing it with fierce aggression but that’s completely irrelevant to this discussion, there are many other things I also support criminalizing
Sib please get on a fucking bus once in your life. You are not allowed to smoke on them, marijuana or no.
When I am on trains or subways there are often other passengers with smoke on their clothes, this is still terrible.
as someone who suffers pretty frequent migraines i can agree that it’s no fun when people are stinky in public. you don’t hear me calling for a ban on perfumes, colognes, axe body spray (showing my age here probably) etc, etc, etc.
I’m calling for a ban on axe, even if you won’t. That shit is for awkward middle school dances, and nothing else
in my experience it was mostly used by assholes to tear gas a whole locker room by puncturing the can and then blockading the door so no one can escape
lmao now I’m imagining Axe body spray cans being used as improvised tear gas devices in a riot.
Okay, so it’s for two things
If the smell was the only issue I would agree with you but marijuana causes violence and death in a way that those don’t
I hate to break it to you but Reefer Madness is not a documentary.
Yes, so does lack of sleep. Put anyone in jail who pulls an all nighter. By your arguments, we should have sleep monitors on every single person since you think we should be drug testing the entire population constantly. Anybody who refuses the sleep monitors or who doesn’t get a good nights rest will be put into mandatory “sleep rehabilitation”. If they refuse, they go to jail to be enslaved to do dangerous work for no money.
It’s weird you can’t see that just because “not sleeping is unhealthy” and “you shouldn’t drive while tired” are both true statements, you can’t make that into law without becoming a freakish draconian tyranny.
That is much harder to regulate. If someone is driving while tired then they also should be facing other sanctions.
if someone is driving while high then they should face consequences, but otherwise no crime has been committed. You can’t just do pre-crime to justify your views. Something can’t be made illegal because someone might later do something different that is illegal.
How do you prevent that? Look at alcohol and how many people drive drunk. Marijuana can remain in your system for over 24 hours (even longer possibly) and many people will drive a car/a bike/go out in public. Not to mention that marijuana is often used in sexual assaults (https://adai.uw.edu/pubs/pdf/2017mj_sexualassault.pdf). I think that users deserve treatment and support rather than just off to prison but that shouldn’t make us act like the drug is some good benefit to society.
Then ban alcohol. I’d love to see you try and eat shit the same way they did a hundred years ago when you developed your worldview
Banning alcohol absolutely should be done and has only failed due to half-assed enforcement and lack of social support. We should be supporting addicts with treatment centers and educating on the harms. That is the best way to eliminate it.
good luck with that buddy, your head will be on a spike if you ever actually try something like this
Not only that, but banning alcohol made it more dangerous because moonshiners and bootleggers resorted to making more and more potent alcohol for transport discretely. The same thing is happening with opioids now. The rise in fentanyl is precisely because it’s more potent so it gets concentrated and easier to smuggle and then dilute/cut at its destination, but then of course people start doing the uncut/pure stuff and die.
So you’re also arguing alcohol should be banned?
I am not currently arguing that as that is not the subject being discussed on this post, but yes, I do support banning alcohol and think it absolutely should be a goal to eliminate all of these useless materials that lead only to death of innocent individuals, abuse, and crime.
Well no, if you wanted to keep the discussion to marijuana then you should have stuck to actual criticisms of the drug instead of criticising potential consequences of misuse, which can apply to a lot of things. Driving unimpaired also kills innocent people, do you think driving should be banned?
Can we eliminate misuse? We have to look at it in the real word and the real word shows that misuse would occur like it does with alcohol. Unless misuse could be prevented then marijuana ought to be kept illegal.
Can we eliminate the negative consequences of a war on drugs? We have to look at in the real world and the real world shows that wars on drugs create huge slave labor prison systems for victimless crimes. Unless capitalism has been abolished then drugs wars ought to be opposed
When did I say that we should oppose it in that way? I am saying that marijuana is a social ill. And that it ought to be opposed. It should be opposed by going after distributors, education, and social support for users while also aiming to disrupt the social norms that encourage it. Marijuana is and has been illegal and opposed in many AES states as well for example.
there’s no other way to oppose it without harsh criminalization. If the punishments are light slaps on the wrists then people will just continue doing it, but in unregulated black markets with more criminal elements.
All you do is hand over an ever increasing marketshare to criminal organizations. If you attempt to crack down hard on those organizations, you get a drug war. Congratulations, you have just understood history of drugs and why your opinions are that of an ancient reactionary
Drug war in the United States focused on the end consumer and was often more about targeting minorities than the drug. Harsh criminalization for distributors is best while making it nearly impossible to attain and education users (and parents) about the dangers. Combined with random drug tests and free treatment centers we can end drug addiction.
Who is advocating letting people drive high? Just like with alcohol, it should have a time and a place and it should be a crime to operate a vehicle under its influence.
If a substance is legal then people will drive on it. Look at it when it comes to alcohol. Drunk driving is illegal but thousands still do it constantly
They are driving under it even if it is illegal. The legality won’t change that.
Except it is effectively legal. When a group of chickens are sick a farmer will cull them. We need the same thing for these addicts. The issue is that they walk and spread the disease of addiction even after doing this