- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
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New bypass just dropped: not buying a single-player game that makes you create and log into a third-party service exclusively because that service wants money in the form of your data/wants to enforce DRM.
Edit: the ‘Steam tho’ comments below are true and Steam’s DRM does suck (I use GOG when I can), but they miss the point I’m making, which is that if you’re buying a game through Steam, you already have the account set up to comply with the DRM. That’s just inherent to the steps of purchasing the game on Steam. Whereas for something like a Sony account here, you don’t necessarily have that, and unlike Steam for instance that at least has the value proposition of cloud saves, you’re getting fuck-all in return here. Additionally, this account is used for likely only one or two games, just introducing a needless logistical hurdle for account management. Think of how many dozens of essentially burner accounts you would have if every game publisher put this bullshit in.
This is why I pirated the game!
See! You didn’t have to! Still makes you a hero in my book, but you didn’t have to!
It’s okay, disability discount is available for everyone with a peg leg, eyepatch, or hook hand.
So, no steam as well?
Sounds good to me. It’s annoying that connecting to a store and a social media platform has become so normalized. I just want to play a game.
That’s what I thought back in 2007. Now I kinda like the convenience. If they added an option to download the games, like GOG, it’d be perfect.
Steam DRM is a joke anyways and not all games on steam have it, so it wouldn’t be that much of a stretch for them to get rid of it.
How does the social media portion of steam affect you if you don’t participate?
It’s bloat, unnecessary junk that’s part of their ecosystem. Instead of having specialized apps, you have one app that does everything; and of course every other brand has to have their own, even fucking musk wants it for twitter.
This creates two problems, first it strains your hardware for no reason, second it creates dozens of walled gardens that don’t interoperate, if you want to chat with your steam friends, you need to go on steam, if you want to play your games, you need to open the right launcher; this is the same shit apple is getting prosecuted for by the EU right now.
GoG is just as well. Epic, Ubishit, EA.
Take a look at all of them and take the best choice for yourself. No monopoly, here. Steam isn’t paying EA and Ubisoft to suck. They’d suck if Valve existed or not.
Steam isn’t the only choice for a gamer any more than a cheap Civic is the only choice for a poor college freshman.
He could do a lot worse.
I mean, we definitely do have a steam monopoly on desktop, they might not be abusing their position much, as of yet anyways, but it’s a monopoly all the same. They captured the desktop playerbase in their little ecosystem and now people are stuck because of their game catalog, achievements, friend list…
What we really need is a standardization of these systems and interoperability between platforms so that they’re forced to actually compete instead of being miles ahead just by virtue of being there first.
For managing a library of videogames on the desktop, including integration with all available stores and local installs, there is Playnite for Windows and Lutris for Linux.
Were they first? I can remember the battle.net launcher way before I ever heard of Steam.
Steam is DRM too, just so you know
Every time… No, Steam is not DRM. I mean, technically it is, but if you consider Steam DRM you must also consider every other game store DRM.
Usually when we talk about Drams we’re talking about things that try to prevent copyright infringement, steam does not do that. It does offers an API which games can implement which has a naive form of DRM, but games are not forced to use it, and a lot of games don’t. More often than not you can simply copy the game folder from steam to another computer without steam and run the game there, therefore no DRM.
you’re wrong. steam absolutely is DRM and works exactly as such. but it’s not mandatory, and there are games that opt to not use steam DRM. so there are many DRM-free games on Steam, more than a thousand at this point, but also many times more that can’t be launched without Steam.
There’s a HUGE difference between a platform having optional DRM and a platform being DRM. Also it’s not opt-out, it’s opt-in, so by default games don’t have it, if they do it’s because someone on the game studio decided to add it, Valve does not force it or even encourage it, they just have it available.
It’s very unfair to say “Steam is DRM”, and a more accurate description is what I used “Steam has optional DRM”.
no there isn’t. DRM games to DRM free game ratio is like 40:1. it doesn’t matter if it’s opt in. steam’s a DRM software. that’s what lead to it being so popular with developers and publishers in the first place. if they didn’t have it things would probably have gone a different way. it would probably have fewer games total than i currently have in my library.
If for every 41 games that had Denuevo one didn’t had DRM Denuevo wouldn’t be a DRM software. However Denuevo is a DRM software, a game cannot both have Denuevo and not have DRM, however a game can be on Steam and not have DRM, therefore Steam is not DRM.
Btw, I think the ratio is way off, the vast majority of games on steam are Indy which don’t usually integrate with DRM.
so there are many DRM-free games on Steam, more than a thousand at this point, but also many times more that can’t be launched without Steam.
Steam is pretty lenient with their offline mode tbh. What I don’t like is when I launch a game from Steam library and it prompts for login to some other launcher.
As a publisher, what is the data that Sony can get from forcing the PS account that they can’t get from Steam? I assume Steam provides all the relevant data to the publishers already?
as with almost every such case, they want you in their ecosystem. some benefits here and there, some in game extras, maybe some discounts, and you’re hopefully now invested in their service, which means you’re more likely to consider their games over others, since you might now consider the extra benefits you get from playing their games … stuff like that.
I’m not saying steam isn’t more costumer friendly than most other DRM; in just saying that claiming it isn’t one or that you can play any steam game without Steam is flat out wrong.
claiming […] you can play any steam game without Steam is flat out wrong.
You should go inform yourself, many games on steam can be played without steam. I’ve even shared my copy of a game with a bunch of friends and we all played together in LAN, with a single copy of a Steam game, and only I had steam installed since this was at work.
Steam does not enforce games to require steam, it is not a requirement, it’s available for those who want to use it.
reading is hard eh? guess what “any” means.
I do. I don’t understand why people get up in a tiff about one DRM when they advocate for another.
Because if you consider Steam to be DRM by the same token you also consider itch and GoG and any way of buying games DRM, which makes the term almost meaningless since companies should be allowed to charge for their products.
Having to sign in to something to play your games is a DRM, that’s definitely steam. Don’t think it fully extends to GOG since once you’ve downloaded the games you don’t even need their client or to ever reconnect to their servers ever again.
If people complain about having to sign into psn to play a game they should also complain about facing to sign into steam is what I’m saying. They always seem to get preferable treatment when it comes to this stuff that it makes it seem like everyone wants them to become (or stay - depending on how you feel about it) a monopoly.
You must sign into steam the same way you must sign in to GoG, i.e. to download the game the first time. After that you can just run the binary. In fact you can copy that binary to another computer without steam to play there. However Steam is not against DRM, therefore some games there do have DRM and need either steam or in this case PSN to run.
That’s an important thing, games CAN use steam as DRM, but they’re not forced to, so there are games in Steam without DRM, therefore Steam is not a DRM by definition.
I could’ve sworn I’ve definitely had issues trying to run steam games elsewhere in the past. For example I have a retro XP gaming PC and what a few failed attempts I had to assume any steam game was just not going to work. Guess I was just doing it wrong then maybe
No, Steam is not DRM. I mean, technically it is
Yes, in the sense that every store online is a digital right management, but people wouldn’t consider itch or GoG DRMs, and if you go to this level of what DRM is it becomes impossible to sell software, because the mere fact of having someplace that allows some people access to something and others not it’s a form of DRM.
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Had Void musl on my notebook, was in vacation. Wine worked on there but proprietary Steam launcher (which is still needed, offline or not) did not.
Did you actually tried to launch the game? What error did you get? What game was it?
Steam launcher is not needed unless the game is programmed to fail if it doesn’t detect steam, not all games do, it’s usually a sign of a badly programmed game. Also the game might have had other DRMs.
But for example grab Crusader Kings or Stellatirs which tries to use the steam API bit if it fails it just keeps going without, and you can copy it to another computer and play without steam installed.
tbh the steam drm is not that bad you dont have to be always online but what do i hate is i have to leave the steam client open which might tank the fps a little
I get not wanting to have to have 40 different accounts to play your games, and making that your entire basis for not buying a game - sure whatever. But that’s your decision, and other people are allowed to be upset that they have to do so, and still want to play the game and just deal with the bullshit foisted on them by corporations.
I bought this game a day or two after release, and it wouldn’t even go into the main menu without connecting my account.
The story goes like this.
I buy the game, download and install a 175gb game, and get excited when it’s finally done. I start the game. Get more excited. BOOM. The first prompt I see says PSN account required. The ONLY fucking options I have are to sign in with the account, or fuck off and quit the game. I try to find a mod (this one didn’t exist just yet, more on that in a moment!) and find nothing. I try to change my region via VPN, and still get this prompt. Okay, I’ll use an old account I used on my old PS3 (I really love the new God of War games, so I do want to support and play them). I go to log in, and it says my password is wrong, okay. I go to the PS website and try to do a password reset. The fucking email never came though. I tried a few more times, probably for an entire hour guys, and nowhere in my email boxes was this password reset email. I then uninstall the game, leave a bad review, and then refund the game. I got a pirate copy, let it download, install, scan scan scan, and BAM! I boot the game up, and it’s at the main menu in no time. Played for quite a few hours and loved it.
The mod came out TWO HOURS after I had gotten my refund. I will not be making another purchase of the game, that’s for sure.
Needless to say, if you are like me and tried to be the Good Samaritan by purchasing the product, well, pirate it. It played as it should have when I bought the fucking thing legally. Fuck Sony and their numerous security breaches, fuck Sony and their stupid ass shareholders, and fuck Sony specifically because they thought this was a good idea.
I’m sorry, 175 GB? WTF with these game sizes.
Devs have gotten pretty lazy with file size optimization these last couple console generations, now that they don’t need to strictly fit everything on the disc.
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I honestly don’t understand why games don’t simply use something like Android does.
If I have a 720p monitor, download lower res assets and a smaller game. If I have a 4k monitor, download all the pixels and consume 100gb.
I think Steam recently started to support different packages for different devices like the steam deck to reduce space. I’m not sure how many games support it because I suspect it’s extra work to maintain more packages.
Big if true! Thanks for sharing, I’ll keep an eye out. The closest thing I’ve seen is Halo Infinite making the highres textures a free dlc
Yep! 175gb for a single player game right out of the gate.
Granted, I think most of the size comes from 4K textures, maybe? It really is a good looking game though.
4K textures for immersive worlds.
thats why support indie devs
I know even better. You just have to go to the gym and ask one girl for a free copy.
Some fit lady you say?
Which carries a spoon and looks French
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Why is logging in to third party accounts the end of the world?
I play on PC too, and while it’s somewhat obnoxious dealing with Ubisoft or EA, and I also have a Playstation account, I don’t understand the big ordeal with just signing in to their stupid thing. Play the game until you’ve had enough, then be done.
You need to sign in to Steam, or Epic, or Gog or whatever. You probably sign in to emails and other accounts. Tons of things have your data whether you like it or not. The outrage all the time on this kind of thing feels really misplaced and overblown.
I hear what you’re saying, but think about it this way, should I have to log into my dvd player to watch a movie? There wouldn’t be any added experience. What about 10 years down the line when Sony decides to shut off PSN? Will they take the time to remove the requirement or will they do what they’ve done in the past and just drop support?
Forcing people to be online and log into shit is just an unnecessary hassle so that they can keep making money off their paying customers. From what I can tell, this does nothing for us. If we just “get over it” then companies will continue to be exploitive. Expressing frustration, especially as a customer is important.
Same sort of argument for more government surveillance. “I have nothing to hide”. Yeah, you have nothing to hide from the government, but what about your crazy ex? Overbearing parent? Because all it takes is one hack and now your information is available to anyone who’ll pay, maybe even for free at some point.
Sure. All valid and I agree and understand. My issue is that they do it anyways. Hardly ever do these companies change course after the backlash. They’re going to keep ramming this garbage down our throats. Being enraged all the time about this, among so many other things, gets old.
Then go away and live your life. Let the people who are angry and energized yell at companies to try and get better conditions for consumers.
Because it serves no purpose.
Sure. I agree. But like, it’s here to stay. The hand wringing for years has changed nothing. Why are we dying on this specific hill? It’s exhausting seeing the endless bitching about this. It’s just another idiotic thing in life where it’s probably healthier to accept it and move on.
Boiling the frog and whatnot.
It’s easier to accept this annoyance and move on. And then the next one. And the next. Why bother fighting anything at that point? It’s easier to let them step on us and be thankful they’ll take our money for it.
Don’t say anything that’s lest majest! Just let him have his way with you and it’ll be over by morning. Don’t fight back it’s pointless.
We were here in history before. You wanna go back? We’ve been well on our way since the 60s to another society of the wealthy and the poor. No in between. The last bout of this we called the religious dark ages and it stifled progress for two millenia.
If I understand correctly, the PSN overlay is the main issue for Linux players. This is already shitty. But they are explicitly excluding part of their potential customer base because they expect the payoff from forcing the accounts to be bigger than that loss. That should make you worry what your data will be used for, because simple upselling hasn’t worked for other attempts at forcing additional logins - why should it work for Sony?
Your line is fucked, you’re bored, can’t play the game.
5 years down, you want to play it again, but there’s no server anymore.
Well you sign in into those other services like email or steam because you need an account to use those services.
But a single player game released on steam does not need it. Steam provides its own DRM that publishers/developers can use if that’s what they want to achieve with an account.
Case in point the mod this post is about, the game doesn’t need an account yet Sony is trying to force it.
Download game, enable offline mode on your steam deck for vacation.
Open game on the plane, in offline mode, get booted from game because you can’t log in.
Megaman battle network got me this way. Switched to emulator and played the same game before it was enshittified.
Among the other things, needing an internet connection to play offline games can prevent some people from playing. Not everybody has a stable internet connection. When I had crappy rural internet I’d download a bunch of games and play when the internet was down. I wouldn’t be able to play this game in that situation.
It’s a case of voting with your wallet for most people. There are degrees of DRM that people are willing to put up with; where some people would rather go for DRM-free games on GOG, others are happy with one launcher like Steam and some others will accept each game launching its own launcher from within a meta launcher/store front.
To be honest it’s a matter of personal preference and I try to be in the 2nd group but I don’t mind what other people do. Again, personally, I dislike the idea of being apathetically brow beaten into signing up for dozens of services for the convenience of companies which provide no utility to me. Sometimes these launchers actively harm the experience by disabling steam launch options or bricking the game completely if you don’t live in the right country.
100% agree, other than the ratio of countries that can legitimately create a PSN account (and/or buy the game).
Otherwise, seems just like the Games For Windows live stuff that people didn’t love but certainly didn’t care this much about.
E.g. Fallout 3, pre-goty.
True. I forgot having seen that people in specific countries were screwed with the stupid PSN thing. That is bullshit.
