Alternative title: “Follow these 17 convoluted steps to stay in your abusive relationship longer.”
And feel like an idiot when Windows 10 support inevitably gets extended in a year anyway.
Or Microsoft kills the work around to get non supported cpus running win 11
Well there are 3 options and they are all bad.
- pay to upgrade your PC (or for extended 10 support)
- stay on 10 and go without security updates
- jump through hoops to update to 11 unsupported
It’s almost like being on Windows is all bad.
- Use another OS (I hear temple OS is even better then 11 these days)
I would vote for 2. myself, its not like the security updates have been deal breakers before (nothing is secure anyway).
You’re about to get ripped to shreds for daring to suggest the odds of anything actually happening to someone on a recently discontinued operating system are not dramatically higher as long as the user has basic use cases and basic tech literacy.
Eh I am used to it. Even when I ask for an example of a end user getting compromised from using out of date software (like a news story, court case, etc.) and they come up empty I am still somehow the “insane” one. You are better to learn to back up things, not get caught in phishing attacks (the most common risk) and watch your accounts then even worrying about security updates.
Worked 15 years in the industry but, hey what do I know… Not like your bank is still using server 2008 and windows 7 or anything…
deleted by creator
It does make me wonder if perhaps malicious actors have novel intrusion methods waiting in store for the deadline because they know those people won’t just get a patch the night the intrusion gets detected. MS would probably love it, because some people would go running scared to pay to upgrade.
Oh we’re talking about all options including outside of Windows? Well gee life has a lot to offer, even things more glorious than using Linux.
You think Linux is any better? I have to upgrade my Mint install every two years! And I have to wait for them to get their update tool ready. And then it takes like 15 minutes or so to complete! My time does not grow on trees!
I have to upgrade my Mint install every two years
I know you’re joking around here, but you don’t have to upgrade every two years. You can use an LTS release instead, or, on the opposite of the spectrum, a rolling release.
Release schedule and duration of support should always be factored into the decision of choosing a distro.
4th option…(Microsoft’s favorite one) Buy a whole new computer compatible with windows 11. Vista style.
That workaround for your bi-yearly feature update on an unsupported PC is more complicated than installing Linux.
There, I said the bad word.You obviously didn’t read the article as it makes no such claim and its not an issue unless you have a 20 year old computer. This superior smug answer based on lies is part of why Linux has a bad reputation. Yeah mb 10% of you guys are world class, and another 25% are competent, but that still leaves the majority of Linux supporters looking like ignorant idiots, like you could have at least read the article you replied to.
The article doesn’t need to explicitly state that, because it’s a simple comparison to make.
its not an issue unless you have a 20 year old computer.
Plenty of computers have been made without TPMs in the last 10 years, as well as built by people who have no need for one, or else they simply disabled it.
The article states;
Without Secure Boot or a TPM, though, installing these upgrades in place is more difficult. Trying to run an upgrade install from within Windows just means the system will yell at you about the things your PC is missing. Booting from a USB drive that has been doctored to overlook the requirements will help you do a clean install, but it will delete all your existing files and apps.
If you’re running into this problem and still want to try an upgrade install, there’s one more workaround you can try.
Download an ISO for the version of Windows 11 you want to install, and then either make a USB install drive or simply mount the ISO file in Windows by double-clicking it.
Open a Command Prompt window as Administrator and navigate to whatever drive letter the Windows install media is using. Usually that will be D: or E:, depending on what drives you have installed in your system; type the drive letter and colon into the command prompt window and press Enter.
Type setup.exe /product server
That is objectively not much different than the majority of Linux installs in terms of what you’re having to do just for an upgrade. That’s the point the person above was making. You can’t click a button, you have downloaded an image, mount it, and run through a setup.
You want to talk “smug”, yet you’re the one being triggered enough by seeing Linux mentioned in a perfectly valid comparison to the point you have to hop on your soapbox about “why Linux has a bad reputation”.
Okay but thats not what he said, the comment I responded to said twice a year a Windows 11 install will break which is just not true. And even a fresh install you can bypass that. And mentioning tpms? Literally article was about how guy is running W11 on a Core 2 Duo, what tpm he has? I love the downvotes though, reminds me the average person can’t read let alone think.
If w11 changes something that relies on tpm, and you don’t have tpm, surely you can see how that could cause a significant issue?
Could you give me of something in W11 that actually needs tpm. Surely to comment this you have an example ready, I would like to discuss.
Whatever it is that checks for tpm obviously needs tpm, or it wouldn’t need a work around
*bites the tongue as hard as possible to not say The Thing*
Install Hackintosh MacOS
/s
Go ahead… you can whisper it to me
Find God and switch to templeos. /s
Jk. Everyone knows Hannah Montana Linux is the next big thing.
ᴵ ʷᵉᵗ ᵗʰᵉ ᵇᵉᵈ ˡᵃˢᵗ ⁿᶦᵍʰᵗ
I started wetting the bed again when I was 11. It continued every few nights until I was 18.
Then it turns out I wasn’t urinating at all. I was just raised in a very controlling home, which meant I had no idea what masturbation was.
It wasn’t until I started having sex that I found out I had been having wet dreams for years, and getting made fun of for it by my dad.
Now my dad is in his 70s, and wonders why nobody will talk to him anymore. Newsflash asshole! You can’t talk to mommy anymore! 103 is a great age to live to, but people aren’t immortal.
Look man, I don’t know what to tell ya. If you didn’t want to read about my penis, then you should have stabbed your eyes out with a fork as a child.
My penis is like Visa. It’s everywhere you want to be!
Sir this is a Wendy’s
ITT: People who talk about Linux (as if that was the subject) because they just can’t accept that some people actually need or want to use Windows and might find articles like this one useful.
If you need Windows, don’t run it on hardware that doesn’t support Windows 11. If you need it, do it the right way, so you can count on it working.
Now, what do you do with your old hardware? There are plenty of good ideas in the comments here.
Or instead of installing Linux as a workaround and having to learn how to use a new OS and having to troubleshoot a ton of inevitable issues to make it work as well as the setup you’re used to just… Use a workaround to skip the hardware requirement! In the end both are a way to work around Microsoft’s requirements, one is something you need to deal with once just requiring you to follow a guide and you’re done, the other will be an ongoing learning process.
Honestly the only people worried about learning a new OS are people that have not even tried another OS for longer then 15 minuts in the last few years.
The desktop is still a desktop so is the taskbar.
The mouse works like a mouse, browser works like a browser and the majority of apps these days are browser apps.
The single actual difference i can think off is that rather then downloading an exe you use something similar to an appstore if your non technical or the command line if you don’t.
And if you are just a little technical you can acutely download that exe and install/run it just fine. (Wine)
Worrying about learning an new OS isn’t as simple as you make it. It takes time, dedication, and will power to work through the pain points.
Most Linux users give answers like “just use Linux” but it’s not that simple. Yes, it’s easier to switch these days because more and more apps are browser/cloud based. But technically a chrome book would be an easier switch if that’s the mentality.
I “use” my PC. I don’t simply check email and go on Facebook. I’m currently trying Linux for probably the 4th or 5th time. It’s easier to get into these days, but it still functions completely differently than Windows, as it should.
For example, It took me at least an hour to figure out how to partition and mount a drive. There’s some not so clear information out there so finding the right info wasn’t as easy as it should be. OK no big deal, now I know, but I don’t necessarily want to chase answers like that every time I use my computer.
Lastly, I’ve never accepted using Wine as a work around for unsupported programs. OK, maybe if you have 1, but not if you have 6. That’s not an acceptable solution when your needs scale up like that. And I have many. I’m not going to 100% get away from Windows. It sucks, but it’s reality.
You do sound like a person knowledge enough to solve their own issues and you have been trying linux so I wouldn’t lump you in with the majority of users that believe that all of linux requires terminal knowledge.
I let you in on a secret. I still have my windows drive in dual boot. I was very scared of linux, i just saw a hyprland gif and fell in love. As a windows poweruser i could not fully commit on that whim.
I have not booted into it in months and i use the same drive to install proton games. (So i can theoretically launch them from both sides) but i do plan to keep it there, just in case. At least for as long as i use that machine.
So by all means you are pretty much as much a limux user as i am, the only difference is with what os we dedicate time.
Recently i got into a powershell course from work and i know you can use 7 on unix, but i am actually thinking of spinning up some windows vm. My work is all windows so i do need to keep up. And there are good things i could say about it.
But i have a personal drive to learn linux, rooted in the philosophy of technological freedom, unrestricted by corporate whims. One day i hope to truly leave windows for a foss new world (does not need to be linux) and i hope sincere that on your own time, you will also join me there.
I’m with you on the philosophy of tech freedom, which is why I’m back to trying Linux again. So yeah, we’ll take that journey together.
I just think its over simplified by most, and I guess I got the wrong impression of you by your 15 minute comment.
I’ve seen multiple people recently post something like, I’ve switched to Linux and can never go back…but I hated it for a year. That makes so much sense to me, and I just feel that most Linux users leave off the learning curve part, and just gloss over to fully knowledgeable use.
So many people just don’t have the time or energy to just jump into something new. I’ve been using windows for 30 years, and learned a lot along the way. Its going to be tough to learn Linux without daily usage and experimentation (and totally screwing stuff up). That’s a tough pill for most people to swallow.
It sounds entirely like FUD. In my opinion Plasma wayland is prettier, far more simple, and much more mature than Windows. Windows feels old, clunky & now uses dark design as part of its UX.
It took me at least an hour to figure out how to partition and mount a drive
This is honestly surprising to me, because the process is basically the same on most Linux DEs as it is on Windows:
- search for “partition” and open the app
- select the drive you want to format
- adjust partition table
- apply
The UI is a little different, but the two major DE families (GNOME and KDE) have a partition tool built-in with a nice graphical representation of what’s going on, which is IMO more intuitive than what I’ve done w/ Windows in the past (hasn’t been since Win 7, so things may have changed).
That said, if you search for it, you’ll get a half dozen (or more!) answers because everyone has their favorite tool (fdisk, cfdisk, etc). But what’s provided in the default installs of most major Linux distros is dead simple. And that’s why I recommend Linux Mint to new Linux users, it comes with pretty much everything you’d need out of the box.
I’ve never accepted using Wine as a work around for unsupported programs
Agreed. If you need specific Windows software and it isn’t available on Flatpak, I’d tell you to stick w/ Windows.
But if you’re okay with learning using something similar (i.e. you can use any word processor and don’t specifically need Word), then by all means, muck about with WINE if you want to give it a shot, because you have a high quality alternative as a backup plan.
That said, if you only need one or two Windows-specific apps occasionally, I’d recommend setting up a VM or dual-boot. I had a VM for years because I needed a couple Windows-specific apps occasionally, and I was okay with the performance hit on the rare chance that I’d need to run it.
How is having to apply workarounds to keep windows working on old machines any different from troubleshooting the occasional linux issue? It’s a rethorical question, the difference is that the workaround on Windows is mandatory while the Linux troubleshoot is nowadays rare and usually related to edge cases.
Some of the workarounds in this article are far more involved and convoluted than what I’ve ever had to do in 15 years of linux. Some are even dangerous for system stability and security. My very recent install of bazzite in a new laptop has been a perfectly out of the box it just works experience. Not even having to open the terminal. 100% friendly GUI without compromising flexibility, power and customizability. Today, suggesting linux with a solid desktop environment like KDE plasma is just foolproof. The end user will be using exactly the same knowledge and habits of Windows, without the harassment machine that is MS now. The change is not learning a new OS, is just switching a few assumptions on how some advanced things work.
Meanwhile I started on Bazzite, my display signal just stopped whenever there was load on the GPU, two days trying different things to make it work, switched to Mint, GPU works but wifi antenna doesn’t, another couple hours to make it work… Windows? Install it and… Well, that’s it, it just works.
I’ve had weird Linux issues similar to that before. However, I’ve also had weird Windows issues too where it didn’t “just work”. I’ve had 2 experiences that really stick out to me with Windows
The first was Intel ARC, I absolutely love the card I have and was using it on a dual boot system. Linux ran it like a dream under Mesa, I just had to install a few more packages to get GPU compute for things like Blender. But Windows was an entirely different story. The driver worked great but Windows update was the absolute worst thing to ever come out of this. I’d have my driver all up-to-date and Windows update would come along, and completely downgrade my driver, to this one specific driver (I don’t remember the exact version) that didn’t even support Intel ARC Control. It would do this randomly too, sometimes during a game, or during Blender renders which caused those things to crash and waste hours of time. It also had a 50% chance to just completely blue screen my system, which lead to a broken/incomplete driver install. It was a mess
The other was with a friend’s laptop I was helping repair. It was running Windows 11 and kept blue screening left and right for what seemed like RAM and driver issues. Tried switching out the RAM sticks, ran Memtest86, all tested good. Tried a new SSD and a fresh install of Windows 11, same issue even before any drivers were even installed. Tried the same thing but with Windows 10 and it worked flawlessly. The laptop had full support with Windows 11 and no workarounds was necessary but Windows 11 just didn’t work at all.
Not to say that Linux has been a smooth ride the entire time, far from it. But Windows has been pretty much the same from my experience in terms of weird bugs and crashes.
TL;DR: I’ve had my fair share with Windows shenanigans, been way too many times where it didn’t “just work” as much I would’ve liked. From GPU drivers to the entire OS.
On Mint, you troubleshoot the wifi antenna following a guide once and then you’re done. On Bazzite you probably just needed to click to change to X11 instead of plain Plasma, on the login screen. I would bet money that you have an Nvidia GPU. Sometimes Nvidia breaks the drivers support on Wayland. They intentionally neglect it in order to keep your kind of mentality around.
On Windows, MS is going to eventually fix the workarounds so you can’t update your computer anymore.
All AMD setup
Funny how people are downvoting when all I’ve done is specified that no, it can’t be justified by the hardware I’m using.
Let’s not pretend there isn’t driver hell on Microsoft, sometimes its even worse than Linux.
Yup, on Linux, you have three possible outcomes:
- works perfectly - most common
- doesn’t work at all
- partially works
Ideally, you end up with 1 or 2, because 3 gives you hope that you’ll get it working properly eventually. I had this happen on my desktop, when I got a new motherboard, the WiFi chip gave really crappy performance because it was stuck on an old Wi-Fi standard or something. I got it to work at ~20mbit/s, but eventually gave up and bought a new Wi-Fi card for $20 or something and now I’m getting way better speed. And this was despite following my own advice to only buy Intel hardware, this chip is just notorious for having issues and is certainly an outlier (replacement chip is also Intel, but a more capable chip).
I had a lot of frustration on Windows w/ my wife’s computer running AMD’s audio driver and AMD GPUs, whereas both just work on Linux. After a couple hours, it mostly works as expected, but it’s still a bit janky. So it absolutely goes both ways.
How long
withwill working around the requirements work? If I need Windows, I’m not going to risk it.Then get newer hardware, simple as that, anything from 2017 or more recent will work.
Yes, that’s what you should do to run Windows.
And then use the noncompliant hardware for Linux.
That’s not true, the OG Ryzen technically meets the requirements (has the TPM chip), but at least when I ran the upgrade check, it failed. So maybe update that to 2018.
“to avoid learning new things, just learn these new things instead and repeat as needed until it doesn’t work anymore! duh!”
It’s so annoying to see in literally every thread about windows
Who needs Windows? You need to use better applications. And if work requires Windows, this article still doesn’t apply because it is the company’s responsibility, not yours, and running on an unsupported machine is a security risk.
Because of course there’s absolutely no program a regular person outside of work could possibly need Windows for. None at all. Not a single application. Not a single game. Not a single piece of hardware they’re using (like many laptops with hardware needing specific drivers that don’t exist for linux).
Nope, absolutely nothing a regular user could have a need for Windows.
OWC instructions for updating their firmware on macOS are basically “Install parallels. Install windows 11. Run the firmware updater.”
https://eshop.macsales.com/support/owc-thunderbolt-3-dock
I didn’t say all applications work. I said use better ones.
As for hardware, less computers support win11 than Linux. You can run Linux on 40 year old computers, and on brand new computers.
Ans this article is literally about bypassing the restrictions that were put in place to protect users with CPUs that have the specte and meltdown vulnerabilities. You’re safer on win10 even after they stop supporting it than win11.
So just another variation of the “you’re using it wrong” excuse. Gotcha.
If you’d rather risk becoming a botnet node than to even consider using alternative software then you are absolutely using it wrong.
If your computer doesn’t support win11, then switching to Linux before win10 ends is the only right choice. The other less right choices are:
Stay on win10, Upgrade to win11 and disconnect it from the network and the internet permanently.
The worst choice is do what OP did.
You’re safer on win10 even after they stop supporting it than win11.
That’s just not true. An actual spectre/meltdown/etc exploit is much less likely than you run-of-the-mill virus or whatever, so if you’re not getting security updates to your OS and apps, you’ll be much worse off than the fringe case of a theoretical attack.
So that part is just flat out wrong.
Either upgrade your hardware or run Linux, don’t run outdated software on anything that touches the internet.
Security updates means patches against exploits like spectre/meltdown, not antivirus updates. You’ll still be getting antivirus updates on windows 10.
Which means that until such an exploit has been discovered, windows 10 would be safer than windows 11 since windows 10 does have a countermeasure against spectre/meltdown while windows 11 doesn’t. Windows 11 literally does not provide security updates to unsupported computers, and the exploits are already known.
windows 10 would be safer than windows 11
Virus protection is a lot different than security patches, and there are a lot more exploits than hardware-level exploits. Virus protection can limit the mechanisms that security holes can be exploited, but they aren’t proactive, but reactive, so by the time your antivirus detects a virus, you have already been exploited, and it’s possible you have been exploited for some time. Antivirus checkers don’t catch everything, and they can be delayed in catching issues for quite some time.
On the whole, I think Windows 11 would be safer than Windows 10 because:
- almost nobody uses Windows 11 on unsupported hardware, so the attacks in the wild will be much less common
- a lot of people will use Windows 10 on supported hardware after SW support ends, so any zero-days will remain unpatched at the OS level, so you’ll be vulnerable to any new viruses using older exploits; the longer you use unsupported SW, the more viruses will be created to exploit it
If I had a friend/family member considering using Windows 11 w/ unsupported hardware, I would give them these options:
- upgrade their hardware - I’ll help them pick out something or upgrade what they have
- use something other than Windows - some flavor of Linux, most likely
Remaining on Windows 10 is unacceptable because it’ll get more insecure the longer they use it, and using Windows 11 on unsupported hardware is unacceptable because they’re vulnerable to bugs in unsupported hardware. That said, I think Windows 11 on unsupported hardware will be more secure than Windows 10 w/o software updates on supported hardware.
I use Linux and none of the programs I need for structural engineering work on Linux.
Trust me, I would totally ditch the dual boot if I could, but sadly, I can’t
What are they called? What do you need for Linux that only works on Windows or Mac right now?
Revit, Tekla, AutoCAD, the usual. I have tried out FreeCAD but found it clunky to use comparably.
Try BriscCAD. It is very similar to AutoCAD and supports their files.
Revit seems to work fine with Wine, and although wineHQ reports Tekla performance as garbage, that was a very long time ago. It probably works better now.
Trust me, if you’re used to the AutoCAD workflow and UI, BricsCAD is just different enough that it can be a bit jarring and a huge drop to your productivity.
Hopefully that’ll change as more users adopt it. But most users don’t need structural engineering or other specialized software, they just don’t want to change their workflow.
Exceptions exist, and they should become fewer as the userbase of Linux grows.
I’m sorry but “you need to use better applications” is very funny to read when most of the time the Linux open source alternative will never be as good as the product made by the company that has hundreds of paid employees working on it.
Except most big open source project are developed by companies, and only the tiny ones aren’t. This applies to all open source projects on all platforms.
Also, most of them already are better. People just don’t want to change their layouts and workflows. And people also don’t value privacy, which if they would, they wouldn’t rate the proprietary software as half as good.
Exactly. For example:
- LibreOffice - Collabora offers paid support for larger companies and does a ton of development on the core
- WINE - CodeWeavers has their own proprietary version (CrossOver) that they sell as a commercial product; oh, and Valve helps a ton too
- GNOME - RedHat/IBM funds it and most things in its ecosystem for its commercial customers
And so on. Most big FOSS projects are backed by one or more companies with full-time developers supporting it. The difference is that the license makes lock-in a lot less likely, since the community (read: non-paid devs) will likely patch in compatibility (i.e. file support, data export, etc).
made by the company that has hundreds of paid employees working on it.
You’d have a point there, if the company’s aim was solely to make a better product; it’s been increasingly about increasing their margins at the expense of the users, advertising as much as possible and buying out the competition.
otoh a lot of the most useful and enduring software ever made has been made by volunteers in their spare time
Linux doesn’t have several programs I use to control my peripherals, the mobo RGB profile, and GPU fan control from Sapphire. It also doesn’t have a proper AMD adrenalin as far as I’ve checked, nor firmware updater for SSD/NVME, and the list goes on and on. I also heard controlling high refresh rate displays on linux is a nightmare.
If I want to use the gaming PC I built to its full potential then I need windows…
The article is still dumb though, anyone left behind using old hardware should not go through the pain of forcing win11 to run. They all should switch to linux
You usually don’t need proprietary software and drivers on Linux because of the great general purpose open source alternatives. Even on Windows, a ton of the drivers are actually useless and only bloat your system or perform invasive telemetry.
Personally I don’t even use the RGB features on my gaming PC, but OpenRGB is open source and lightweight. I would probably use it over proprietary RGB profiles even on Windows. You should give it a try.
GPU fan control is already available by default in most Linux distributions and should require no additional drivers.
AMD always have Linux drivers. The Linux adrenaline driver is here: https://www.amd.com/en/support/download/linux-drivers.html
SSD/NVME firmware updates should also already be supported by default in linux. With for example fwupdmgr.
High refresh rate displays should also work out the box on the modern distributions. On Linux Mint and Ubuntu they have a GUI for it, but changing resolution and refresh rate with Xrandr also only takes one or two terminal commands. There likely is software to do it, but if anything I could write you a script that does it if your distribution doesn’t already have GUI for it. I had to write a script to adjust some of my monitors’ drawing area because I mirror, but my displays don’t have the same aspect ratio.
I have already looked up most of what you recommended, and I arrived at the same initial conclusion…
- OpenRGB doesn’t list support for my Gigabyte mobo, or XPG ram (unless I’m reading this wrong). I need this to stop the default behavior which is rainbow puke
- AMD adrenalin only lists 3 distros, and none of which I’d like to use (I’d prefer linux mint LMDE)
- Plus I haven’t even talked about the apps (office for starters, then itunes+icloud which I use to sideload apps)
OpenRGB doesn’t list support for my Gigabyte mobo
Unfortunately, this is still relatively common on Linux, but it’s not really a Linux issue, but a manufacturer issue. The manufacturers should be the ones supporting Linux, not the other way around.
The situation is getting better, so when it comes time to upgrade, you can find something more open so you’re not beholden to some random software and have more choice.
AMD adrenalin only lists 3 distros
Honestly, I don’t see the point of adrenalin on Linux. For framerate locking, use libstrangle or mangohud. Don’t bother with OC, it’s honestly not worth it (if you really want to, it is totally possible).
I don’t know what else Adrenaline provides, but I’m sure there’s a way to get what you want on Linux.
apps
This is absolutely hit-or-miss, and IMO a bigger issue if you really need something that’s not properly supported on Linux. If it’s not in the repositories or in flathub, IMO, don’t bother if it’s going to be a dealbreaker (esp. Adobe products).
But if you’re fine using an alternative (e.g. LibreOffice for office software, likewise for any other apps), then give WINE a shot, maybe you can keep your same workflow. Or if it’s really only for an occasional thing either run a VM (if it’s not performance sensitive) or dual boot. I have a drive w/ Windows installed just in case I need it for something, but I haven’t booted into it for something like 2 years now. But it’s there if I ever actually need it (will need a ton of updates though).
When people create programs/drivers “See, it exists for Linux, no need for manufacturers, it’s much better!”
When programs/drivers are missing for Linux “It’s the manufacturers you should blame!”
So, which is it now?
We should always blame manufacturers. Either it’s manufacturers helping out development by creating decent drivers, or it’s manufacturers hiding their documentation so developers have to reverse engineer their chips, which takes way longer. But the focus should always be on the manufacturers, whether for good or bad.
I think a lot of people have switched to Linux and realized it was just a lot better, myself included. It took me a bit to let the differences soak in, just like when I got my first smart phone but after a bit of using it and trying things out you realize you should have done it a long time ago
Its part of their personality.
They remind me of my devout jehovah witness neighbor who’s been doorknocking and dropping flyers in my mailbox for 20+ years to remind me I’m going to burn if I don’t convert.
ITT: Stockholm Syndrome victims defending the abusive relationship they have with their OS.
Newsflash, honey: she doesn’t respect you; she only wants to exploit you. It’s time to break up!
Yes because never ever an user had abused their OS.
Newsflash honey: it’s a fucking tool, it doesn’t have feelings. It’s your own choice to use it or not.
Man fuck these half baked parasocial analogies.
That’s right: it is a fucking tool, which means nothing the user does to it or with it could possibly count as “abuse” by the user. An OS is supposed to exist to do exactly the computer owner’s bidding; no more, no less.
But Microsoft certainly doesn’t see it that way. Instead, Windows exists to do Microsoft’ bidding, computer owner’s rights be damned. It’s Microsoft that’s abusing you, by whoring you out to advertisers and subverting your property against you, when you use Windows.
Bro, it’s true you can’t disable certain things, but you can certainly break it. I can still use a previous version and not update. I can still pirate ltsc. I can remove or install any bullshit I want. It takes the same fucking time when configuring your Linux distro of choice, unattended or not.
I don’t give a fuck what Microsoft thinks. I can still break their os to do what I want.
You’re too self absorbed in Linux good windows bad.
Sure, you can work around Microsoft’s intentional sabotage, in the same way that you can make excuses about “falling down stairs” when friends ask about the black eyes your abusive spouse gave you. But you shouldn’t have to.
Oh and…
It takes the same fucking time when configuring your Linux distro of choice, unattended or not.
…no it fucking doesn’t, BTW. (At least not unless you intentionally choose to use a ‘difficult’ distro like Arch or Gentoo.)
I don’t think you know what unattended means.
Overall, no actual proper answers. Got it.
Sure, and the article exists for those who want to go that route.
Comments are comments, as in discussion about and around the topic. In this case, people are discussing Linux as an alternative, because it is a viable alternative for most people, especially the type for whom this article is too complex. Discussion about Linux as a viable alternative is therefore absolutely welcome and should be encouraged.
I also welcome discussion about macOS as well, especially since they have a really good track record for supporting their hardware with software updates.
If this pisses you off, just know that Microsoft will probably make more changes like this that will piss you off. They’re trying to take more control over your computer little by little, and right now they’re doing it in the name of “security,” but eventually they’ll likely drop that and just make changes for the sake of lock-in. So if this pisses you off, you should consider alternatives if they’ll work for you.
The thing is, it’s impossible to have a discussion about Windows on Lemmy because they automatically get hijacked by people who only have one thing to say “Install Linux you idiot.”, they add nothing to the conversation and are off topic.
Agreed, and it’s really unfortunate. In many areas, Lemmy is much more of a “hive mind” than Reddit was, probably because a lot of people with similar ideas got pissed about the same thing and left around the same time.
I wish Roblox would stop having their fight with Linux and I just convert my kids over.
They absolutely don’t need Windows for anything but Roblox at the moment.
Otoh, Roblox is evil and you could just use the switch to Linux to be like, “oh no, I guess we can’t have Roblox anymore!”
My home is more of a democracy than a dictatorship. I could of course forbid them from playing, impose whatever sanctions, But they have fun doing it and they have a bunch of real life friends that join them.
My home is more of a democracy than a dictatorship.
Oh, now you’ve done it, you’ve pissed off the tankies.
Dude, if I could get them to seize the means of production…
Damn, as a father, I feel that.
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What is a tanky? Only heard that after switching to Lemmy. What’s the origin?
Edit: God damn, definition was far more literal than I imagined!
tankie = stalinist/maoist style communist, take control of everything, anyone who resists, run them over with tanks.
lemmy.ml has a bunch, also hexbear and especially lemmygrad.
They seem like angsty tweens who suddenly realized they figured out the solution to everything, and anyone who doesn’t listen to them must be dealt with.
Specifically referring to scenarios where tanks were used in conflicts between civilians and the state, such as Tiananmen square or Chechnya and expressing support for the side using tanks.
It’s a term that goes back to the cold war. There was a strike and the Soviet Union ended it violently by rolling tanks into the city. This put communists all over the world into a bit of a dilemma: on one side of the conflict was the working class making their opinion known (a communist value) and on the other the Soviet Union (the good guys). So whose side should they take?
It was British communists who coined the term “tankie” for those who defended the SUs actions to brand them as “fake communists” who are more interested in identity politics (the good guys did it, therefore it’s OK) than the plight of the working class.
Tankie is a sort of derogatory term for people who whitewash and cover up the horrors of communism.
There was a rebellion in the Soviet Union. The SU responded by rolling tanks into town and violently busting it. This put two sides of communism at odds; On one hand, there was the plight of the working class (the rebellion) and then on the other there were the actions of the people in control (the tanks). Tankies are the “communism has only ever helped people, you’re just listening to capitalist propaganda” folks who decided to side with the tanks, instead of siding with the working class. It’s sort of like calling someone a fake communist, [insert “No True Scotsman fallacy” argument from a tankie below], because a “real” communist would side with the working class.
You see it a lot on Lemmy because many instances have some major communist lean. After all, the “anyone can run their own instance and be in charge. No centralized instances, if you don’t like the mods you can just change instances” concept of the Fediverse jives very well with communist ideals. For instance, the “ml” in lemmy.ml is meant to stand for “Maoist/Leninist”. And that means the entire communist spectrum is on display; From both the more moderate “yeah communism has some cool parts but was also responsible for some major humanitarian crises” to the more extreme “those crises [were caused by individuals, not by the political system]/[never actually happened at all. They’re lies made up by capitalists to deter people from supporting communism!] Communism never actually hurt anyone.”
Any democracy can be replaced with a dictatorship with well placed CIA intervention.
It’s not like they have a lot of election choices, I’ve kind of got a one-party system going on. They can vote for me or they can vote for my wife but they’re getting the same thing either way.
The problem is, they’re eventually going to determine what kind of nursing home I go to. If Roblox buys me chicken pot pie Thursday I’ll considerit a win
My man is thinking ahead.
I respect your approach. I bet you’re the kind of parent who apologises to their kids when you make mistakes
My dad refused to tell me what’s he apologizing for when apologizing, so his apologies were kinda insincere and a way to show that he can do shit behind my back and then just “apologize” and pretend it’s something good.
He was messing in things not his to deal with in the first place. Thinking he’s the smart one there. Naturally it generally wasn’t so, and then he never answered any questions I’d ask.
Now he’s also dead, so I can’t even ask him again.
OK. Back to the subject - parents should be honest and consistent, and also always understand that their kids are different people, and no part of them belongs to the parents. And that no, parents don’t know better. When the moment comes that a parent’s advice is consciously rejected, they should just take it. When they are not let into something, that means it’s not their concern, period.
You have to own that shit it’s the only way you can expect them to ever own it.
Within reason, I have to hold myself accountable to the same level I expect them to.
It’s all a big balancing act. Getting enough discipline in to make them responsible without using so much the lie to you and hide stuff.
I wasn’t raised that way, I want to do better by them.
roblox works on linux https://sober.vinegarhq.org/
Have you tried using sober?
It’s been a little while since I tried last thing I tried was the bottles method and it was not going well.
I’d be willing to give it another shot, But if I do find something else that works I’ve got to make sure that continues to work. If somebody changes something and They miss out on a Halloween or a Christmas live event I’ll never hear the end of it.
Have you looked outside ? No
Run a Windows VM in
<insertYourDistroHere>and run Roblox?They’re not on the finest of boxes and a lot of the Roblox games actually need some decent resources.
When we get closer to the drop dead date I may give it a shot. I’m kind of hoping Roblox will get around too not being pig-headed about it.
You can definitely give a VM enough power through KVM and qemu to run Roblox. You can even try your hand at single gpu passthrough if it’s worth that much time having youe kids switch to Linux. Not putting a value statement there, I think it is but that’s besides the point.
You can also give quite a bit of power to virtualbox with 3d and hardware acceleration.
I have an unraid with a 2070 super passed, but all the hardware here is 7th/8th gen. They’re barely scraping by on doors/obbys with baremetal :)
Maybe next year they’ll get some upgrades with Debian attached :)
Could try finding them a new game to play on the new system. I’ve never played Roblox myself so don’t have any suggestions, but I’m sure there’s something that will scratch that itch for your kids.
That poor x220 deserves a coreboot and a good OS
Libreboot*
Yeah libreboot is the right coreboot distro, but meh I felt like letting others decide. I personally have my x220 with libreboot and Guix system
Doesn’t that only work on three IBM laptops from 2014 ?
It’s only VERIFIED to work on old stuff. But you can try. The idea of libreboot is having an unbloated bootloader that is easy to install without having to configure all the setuip yourself. Because of that the libreboot community only verifies it on old hardware or few hardware that the testers have.
I mean, I’d like that, but what do you think are the chance the random motherboard in my PC isn’t going to get bricked by and the RAM, pcie 8x/8x bifurcation and srv-io are still going to work ?
The most problematic is the stuff that is not standardized and the south-bridge of the chipset. You can always check on coreboot, they are not unbloated philosophy but you can try.
No, it works on a wide variety of hardware. Which systems are supported by Libreboot?
Most (all?) of these have been discontinued for a decade unfortunately
Yes, modern laptop manufacturers wouldn’t let you control your own device.
So, it’s going to take government to take back ring level -1 ?
That’d be really sick if they did that but I don’t foresee it happening anytime soon 😥
Can you run a virtual machine?Yes, why?
Run a Windows VM in<insertYourDistroHere>and run Roblox?Sorry, replied to wrong user.
I mean, the real danger is they shove out an update that straight up breaks on your PC, as in won’t boot even in safe mode because it does something with the TPM, and it’ll be your own fault for deliberately circumventing the requirements.
Non-geeky people will generally run things until they actually stop working completely. They don’t care what OS it runs as long as it runs all their shit.
Non-geeky people will generally run things until they actually stop working completely.
Geeky people, on the other hand, may either adopt a new OS while it’s still half-baked, or jump through hoops to keep an old one running long past the point where a non-geeky person would have given up. Some of us do both, just for the lulz. Windows 11 on unsupported systems offers a new and exciting(?) way to scratch the same “can I make this work, just for the hell of it?” itch.
Just kill windows update and windows update medic service.
That kind of defeats the whole purpose of moving from 10 to 11 though. Stopping security updates for 10 would be like 99% of the point, unless somebody has suddenly found a use for DirectStorage…
HDR is kind of screwier in w10. But yeah, I use w10, it is the last windows. Maybe if someday I can fully defang w11 I might upgrade. Or backport some bits from w11 to w10 but no big deal.
You can just stay on Win10 if you aren’t gonna do updates anyway. The solution is obviously linux.
Yeah cuz Linux has never had updates that break basic system functionality…lmao
Quite funny how that’s true for the software side, but on the hardware side, geeky people (especially on the foss side) are the ones running things until they accumulate failures to a point that no workarounds will do any good anymore.
just use linux
I only ever use Windows on my work computer, and only when I need access to a resource that requires our Windows-only VPN.
But seriously, “just use linux” is worthless advice. Lots of people use Windows for specific applications that don’t exist in the Linux ecosystem. For example, there are no Linux applications that come close to AutoCAD, and it simply doesn’t work on Linux.
Better advice would be to get new (or newer used) hardware if possible, if you absolutely need to use Windows, since this workaround will inevitably be “corrected” by Microsoft. Then you can do whatever you like with the old hardware, such as install and learn Linux at your own pace.
“just use linux” is great advice. Not everybody has the money for PC upgrades. And the amount of people that require specific Windows programs and can not switch to an alternative that works on Linux is extremely small.
No, it’s useless advice for people who don’t already have knowledge about Linux.
What kind of knowledge do you think linux requires? Installing is like a 5 step process. Once installed any grandma can use GNOME or KDE just fine.
This is absolutely bullshit and you know it.
A few years ago you would be absolutely right. Nowadays most Linux distributions are pretty straightforward in their installation process though.
Which distros to choose, what are their pros and cons, which distros works best with whatever hardware they have? What about which of their existing hardware doesn’t work on Linux? Which of the software they use everyday and probably have spent money on the licenses doesn’t work on Linux at all and which can kinda work using WINE?
These are all questions that are not easily answered by people that lack the prior knowledge of Linux. Just saying “use Linux” is not simply useless advice if you don’t know their use case or the hardware they use, it’s practically harming the first time experience of non-tech savvy people with Linux.
You’re over complicating things
if you don’t know their use case or the hardware they use
Most hardware will work ootb, most use cases is opening the browser. But i do agree a blank “use Linux” is a bit too broad. Something like “Use Mint” or “Use Fedora” is better.
No. It’s easier to use than Windows. Just because you have experience in Windows doesn’t make it objectively easier to use.
You don’t need any knowledge. And the small amount you may need when you run into issues is easier to learn than other OS’s.
That’s hilarious. Just because you have experience with Linux doesn’t make it easier to use, either. And 90% of people in the workplace has experience with Windows and Windows only, so that means the majority of people already can use Windows easier even if both OSes are equally easy to use.
Considering all my experience with using Linux has been painful, I don’t believe you when you say Linux is easier. I can Google any issue to do with Windows and find the solution without delving too deeply. You know what happened the last time I tried to find the driver for the wifi card in my laptop for Linux? I had to find an obscure website that lists third party drivers for Linux only to find that it doesn’t exist for my specific card. The card that works flawlessly in Windows.
Imagine not having that knowledge before jumping all in on installing Linux. Most of the people in my office would’ve already sworn off Linux forever the moment they encounter such setback, especially if they were being lied to about the level of difficulty they would face.
Wow, lots of cope from your part here.
It actually is easier. Especially the last few years. Almost every wifi driver and whatever you want just works out of the box. It has stores that are actually worth using, like the Gnome store. It has everything you want for a modern OS.
You should really try Linux again. Something like Ubuntu or Mint is so noob friendly you can do whatever you want without even opening the terminal.
My point still stands. I said that it’s objectively easier to use. Somebody with more Windows experience will have less trouble with Windows. But people that aren’t versed in computers will find a noob friendly distro much less confusing and easier to use than the turd that is Windows 11.
I have used Windows 95, 97, ME, XP, Vista, 8, 10, 11 and a few Server ones. I have used Ubuntu, Mint, Debian, and many others, with Desktop Environments and headless as well. I have also used a few Macbooks, albeit very limited. And as I said, objectively, Ubuntu and Mint are just much simpler to use than the newer versions of Windows or Mac.
Who’s coping here when you’re the one completely dismissing my own experience with using Linux. That’s not a good look for someone supposedly giving ‘good’ advice.
That experience I had was from earlier this year, btw, so don’t tell me that whatever I want will work out of the box. This is why I hate whenever people say “just switch to Linux” without taking any responsibility. You don’t know what hardware people have and going to install Linux on.
You also claimed Linux is good for people with no money to buy new hardware, yet barely care to even make sure the people you tell this to doesn’t have hardware that might not be supported. What are they gonna do after your advice made the only hardware they have no longer connect to wifi or ethernet? I doubt you’d go out of your way to help them, then.
As for simplicity, I don’t see how W11 is any more complicated that Ubuntu. More resource heavy, yes, but that doesn’t affect the user experience much. Give me concrete examples on how they’re easier to use.
you are talking about a small minority of users. what percentage of users use autocad at all?
Not many, but plenty use various corporate applications that are Windows-only.
such as?
As an engineer, all my jobs so far have used niche internal corporate software which would only be available for Windows. This would be Document Management Systems (DMS’s), internal reporting tools (progress and hour keeping), software distribution programs etc.
And of course the engineering tools themselves are often only built for Windows, whether it’s proprietary PLC programming environments or CAD software.
That said, I can run both WSL and a corporate-approved Debian VM on the same work laptop as a compromise, for whatever makes sense for the task. Still sucks though! At home I’m a Debian fanboy 4 lyfe.
you are still talking about niche software though
in my office about 90% of people there could be using linux for their daily tasks with no issues.
Interesting, how would that work if your corporate IT department uses an (Azure/Entra) active directory system? Can you use a bare metal Linux OS on a Microsoft-based domain service? Asking out of ignorance and curiosity.
Just wondering, what kind of VPN is windows only? FortiNet? GlobalProtect?
It’s some kind of locked-down version of GlobalProtect that’s integrated with a TPM module to prevent machines that aren’t running our corporate image on corporate-approved laptops from being able to connect.
There’s probably some kind of workaround, but I’m lazy and it’s easier just to power up the Windows machine now and then.
Aw hell no!
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Give me a good Linux distro that’s great on a tablet PC
ubuntu. anything with gnome, really.
You can’t even open an application on Gnome without pressing the small Activities button on the top left of the screen.
touch input uses gestures instead, not unlike android.
Well, I can simply open an app by tapping it on the home screen on Android. What do I need to do on Gnome?
i dont have a touch device with gnome, but you open the app drawer with i believe a left swipe. on android you usually swipe up instead.
So no quick way to open my 30ish favorite apps? Is there also a gesture to close an app or do I need to press the close button?
TFW you continue fucking around with Windows rather than learn Linux
One thing doesn’t exclude the other.
I suppose that’s a little like working to save the earth and working for big oil. Yes, one could do both but . . why?
Sure as soon as I can take my software with me.
No, learn the alternatives.
Thanks but I already have a hobby
Can’t you do that with Wine for the most part?
No idea, Altsnap, xmbc, everything, windocker, openshell, everything toolbar, fancyZon(ms powertoys) and ditto clipboard manager.
Most of these are very unlikely to work with wine as they address general weak spots in both windows and linux
As of 15 min ago, my dad has decided to install windows 11 on his 12 year old home pc. Oh boy.
Tell him you’ll have to do it for him and install Linux mint
I made that comment to my mom this morning. Also I have tried Linux on that machine and its weird. It has a very old digitizer that sort of works. (Sony Vaio AIO). Disabling it is a #1 priority.
He’s technically inclined enough to install it himself entirely.
Other issue is the wireless card. It’s an old Qualcomm card (not ath9k).
We’ll figure it out once windows 11 stops working. Or if the drive dies.
I’m running Windows 11 on a 12 year old X79 platform. Runs just fine.
But it was definitely top of the line in its day and 48GB of RAM keeps any system relatively snappy.
It’s an i5-2430m powered AIO PC with a HDD and 8 gb of ram (its only saving grace). It’s fine for what my dad uses it for, which is largely web browsing for work and excel.
Omg, I wonder if I’d splurge on a ram stick or an ssd (if I couldn’t do both for some heavy economical reason).
Just FYI I made an el cheapo “win-game-box” with an old dell and wasn’t able to install w10 on the ssd so I put it on a hard drive. So slow I felt I went back in time to 2005. Figured out how to reset win10 with a specific dell iso and was able to put it on the ssd -> totally okay/snappy pc.
It’s 2 4 gb sticks and so I’d have to hope that it supports 16 gb of ddr3.
As for the ssd, that’s in the cards eventually. But since it’s an aio Pc, it’s an utter pain to work on
It’s actually not shit for a hdd which confuses me. It’s just an Hitachi Travelstar hdd. I’ve used faster (on paper) machines that don’t feel as responsive as that computer.
Yeah Win11 will probably be a noticeable performance hit on that. Especially Explorer which they made dog slow when adding tabs and the new context menu.
The Office apps and browser will probably be about the same.
I’m glad I put mine on Mint years ago. His Mint 21 install is still supported until 2027 and I only have to help him like twice a year with smth
I ended up taking my unsupported computer and turned it into an Unraid server. Bought some refurb enterprise drives on eBay to get it set up, and now I have an awesome home media server/NAS.
Why should I be curious about unraid (I have a case and a bunch of drives btw)?
It’s a low friction way to set up a home server with NAS and docker containers. The “Unraid” portion is the configuration that lets you set up an “array” with parity drive(s), but without striping so each disk has a complete filesystem and files accessible even when removed from the array. Everything can be managed through a web UI, and there’s a robust “app store” of docker containers.
The downside is that it’s not free, and they recently moved towards monthly/yearly licensing and increased the cost of new lifetime licenses.
Thanks! Not for me then but close :-)
Has nobody heard of a vm? Who the fuck runs windows on bare metal thats fucked.
14 billions computers probably
Ud think people would learn after they all blue screened.
Haven’t had a blue screen in probably a decade.
If you’re talking about crowdstrike… They didn’t all blue screen. That was caused by third party software that caused the same sort of issue (kernel crash/panic) on Linux boxes not even 3 months earlier.
What are you referring to here?
probably the CrowdStrike bug. Which is 3rd party software
Just spitballing here, but I think the vast majority of the United States corporate workforce?
I struggle to have any sympathy for them.
Great Scott, you are toxic
you seem to think people have a choice. crazy
Thats my point they do. Vm windows inside it for ur bullshit windows stuff. Well unless u wanna run games wirh invasive anti cheats. I need windows for my cad shit and i just put it in a vm and passed through my gpu.
no, they dont.
most people do not get to go into work and say ‘im not using windows, sir’ because the business has long since bent over for microsofts services
your comment reminds me of people complaing about people living in war torn countries ‘well they can just move!’
nonsense
You can use VMs even more ambitiously. If your wi-fi is not supported by FreeBSD - there’s a
wifiboxport, basically it runs a minimal Linux with PCI passthrough.And of course if I need Windows, it won’t be bare metal.
Using windos is like being in an abusive relationship where your partner goes through your phone all day every day, you pay all the bills, you don’t get to have sex or laugh, and you’re reminded every day that you’re paying too little and that there is so much more you should buy for your partner.
Just install Linux already. Yes, Linux has its problems too, but they are less and easier to fix than this turd
Hmm, I wonder if the server install trick would fix my issue with upgrading to 24H2. On my desktop system, when it reboots for upgrades, it bluescreens saying it can’t find the storage device. I’m guessing it’s something to do with the RAID driver.
Edit: nope lol
I need to try that actually for my old laptop. It blue screens if it updates past 1809
