- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
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If you’re considering buying one you might want to take into account that they removed the headphone jack so they can sell their own wireless buds and headphones.
you mean this strange old socket that is (at least for me) primarily used for collecting dust since almost a decade? yeah, personally I can live without it.
and this fortunately is not apple. You can use every brand of earbud and use all of the features, so I don’t really get your point at all. the phone is very good and I hope I will be able to use it until the 30s
Having a headphone jack will let you use any kind of headphone produced in the last 50 years, which has a 3.5mm jack. Also, while listening to music you could also charge your phone, if you choose to, but not with a USB-C only port. Furthermore, USB-C DACs are stupid, they are an annoyance, even the ones with the shortest cables - I broke three of them in two months because they’re idiotically designed and they don’t fold in my pocket - a thing that never happened with headphone cables.
You also don’t get a noticeable delay on the audio, which imo makes watching any video horrible
Two years in and providing a USB-C adapter my wife is still complaining that her current phone doesn’t have a headphone jack.
For my daughter I selected the phone mostly for repairability combined with colour choice, which landed me with Nokia - which ended up having a headphone jack. Didn’t pay attention to that, but she’s happy it is there.
Tell me a pair of wireless headphones that are as good and around the same price as the moondrop Aria’s with extremely low latency (so they can be used for rhythm games) and can buy a replacement case for not too much.
Also Bluetooth’s audio quality is terrible when also using the microphone at the same time. So you can’t really make a call and enjoy listening to music at the same time
I agree with you, but why would you make a calla and listen to music at the same time?
I used to do it all the time during Corona while being home schooled.
Or when you simply just want to watch a video together.
I got a 30 dollar pair of knockoff ipods for my Samsung and the audio quality is better than the wired akg buds it came with. They also sell for less now. No issues with battery life and the case has a battery level display. They also can be wirelessly charged. They’re my favorites.
Out of curiosity, what features are restricted on iPhones for off-brand earbuds?
I know with my iPhone 12 Siri is shit on my Sony linkbuds. It won’t read my messages like it would with the AirPods I replaced or allow me to reply with them
I always plug in my car stereo to that old socket in my car…
You might want to look into a bluetooth to FM radio dongle
I tried one, it sucked balls, it was a cheap brand though, so I’m open to recommendations.
I care less about the lack of a headphone jack and more about the lack of multiple ports
USB C is genuinely a great multiport, but all of these companies leave the phone with one port. People would care less if each phone had two ports, so you could plug in headphones via adapter while also charging
There are actually dongles which have both an audio jack and a USB c port. I never used one of those dongles though
I have. They tend to be poorly shielded so you get all kinds of hiss and other shenanigans in the audio when you’re charging and listening at the same time. The adapters exist, but I’ve yet to come across one that isn’t terrible.
Those suck worse than the old school 3.5mm splitters we all used back in the discman, and later iPod days.
The removal of the headphone jack is one of the worst developments in personal electronics over the last 30 years. Personally I hope that the EU’s next port mandate forces its reintroduction as Bluetooth headphones are an environmental catastrophe.
The lack of headphone jack is the sole reason I went with Samsung XCover 6Pro instead. Shame really, because I’m the kind of person who uses their device for +5 years, and prefer fixing stuff myself, but when Apple removed the headphone jack I made a decision to never buy a device without one if there’s an alternative with it and I’m still sticking with that. I bought an “outdated” laptop aswell because the newer model didn’t have USB-A, HDMI or a card reader. Ironically the most recent models now do.
Ironically the most recent models now do.
Not really ironic. They’re all just copying whatever Apple does, and they backtracked on that stupid decision.
It’s Apple I’m talking about
deleted by creator
I mean, I don’t know their other practices, but the removal of the headphone jack is hardly green washing. I’d bet it actually is more sustainable to not include it tbh, plus it is likely more affordable. Beyond that, with just looking into it, as I expected, they’re a more sustainable and repairable set of headphones compared to the rest of the market. Moreover, I highly doubt dropping the jack would drive folks to decide to buy these if they weren’t already. They’re not tiny earbuds. They’re over the ear which is generally something folks buy when they actually are looking for them.
Sometimes accelerated progress can lead to waste, but holding onto legacy tech for too long can also lead to waste.
The big issue with removing the headphones jack is just that it’s now impossible to use wired headphones while charging the phone.
For a lot of people that doesn’t matter but for some of us that’s a big deal. If they added a second USB-C port that would fix the issue.
But saying the 3.5 jack is legacy technology is also kinda wrong. A USB headset is not inherently better. You have to compare the digital audio converter that’s used. While USB headphones use their own dac, the jack uses the dac of the phone. So a cheap phone with high quality USB headphones will be better but a high quality phone with cheap USB headphones would be worse than using the jack.
Which even means jacks would be more sustainable because you only need one dac per phone rather than one per headphone.
And any form of wireless headphones are just inferior to wired connections.
I didn’t say a USB headset is inherently better. The one on your phone isn’t inherently better either if you’re using a 3.5mm jack either. So the argument can work both ways. And to be honest, no phone really has amazing onboard DAC, and especially not the Fairphone.
just carry an entire usb hub with you
I’d bet it actually is more sustainable to not include it tbh, plus it is likely more affordable.
Mmm now you’re dealing with powered devices that have another two batteries that wear out, plus the battery in the charging case, all the electronics involved, etc etc
Vs a simple plastic connector and an associated amplifier IC that costs about $3 in quantity.
You can still use a wired headset if you so wish with your $3 connector. But when someone wants wireless, it’s nice to have the option.
I don’t blame Fairphone trying to make their product less expensive to produce. It’s not like they’re the biggest sellers in the world or benefitting from economies of scale as much as other companies.
So what you’re saying is the existing crowd with the existing hardware should buy the adapter cable, which if you want to talk sustainability, is more resource intensive to produce than internal phone components, using considerably more copper/PVC/etc by having two connectors in it.
So that the crowd with Bluetooth, which is pretty much provided by every phone wifi chipset by default and is no doubt provided by a chipset like that in the Fairphone, can use Bluetooth.
I don’t blame them that much for trying to reduce costs/component count. But I do wonder how many potential customers a manufacturer who is trying to promote freedom of choice/software loses when they remove a particular freedom/choice from their phone.
Removing the headphone socket does grant an extra degree of waterproofing. You don’t have to make that area of the phone quite as robust either - a 3.5mm plug has quite a lot of leverage on your PCB when it’s plugged in. There’s now room on the PCB for … something else they need/want to put on there, another ram chip, a cubic centimetre for extra battery (which apple tried to justify as their reason), something like that.
But it does mean that they lose at least a few people who like the general simplicity of a wired connection.
Your first paragraph is wrong imo. A minority of users are using 3.5mm jack, including a port on the phone for all users results in more waste than having that minority buy an adapter that can be re used on any phone in the future.
Also please don’t argue that jack users aren’t a minority now. Most users don’t care about having the port on their phone, and most are happy with wireless.
I’ll argue what I want, it’s my opinion, just like it’s your opinion to state that my first paragraph is wrong, and to follow on I would like to counter-assert that most people just deal with what they get when they buy a phone and don’t get to have much say in the matter, whether they like it or not. :-)
If you agree that, in general , all users have headphones of some sort, and that both types of users can take said headphones along to their next phone, then:
I will argue that we still end up in the same position. That is, a single port (and internal chips) + cabled headphones needs less resources compared to using an existing multi purpose Bluetooth chip in the phone and now having two extra battery devices with electronics to provide reception and amplification in each bud (effectively duplicating that which was originally contained in the phone). I resist the idea that removing the headphone socket is somehow a “better” choice sustainability-wise, and I will continue to do so.
It would be even more sustainable to not include the Bluetooth module. Less parts means less material use (making it greener) and less cost of materials as well (making it cheaper). The phone has speakers for audio anyway. Who wants to carry around some second accessory like headphones or earbuds? It’s not like anyone has a perfectly valid use case for the Bluetooth module, right?
Also, it doesn’t feature a serial port. This phone is almost useless. /s
You forgot PS/2. No one’s gonna use this USB thing, it sucks.
Yeah I think so too
Is this a fair argument in 2023 with all the options for wireless headphones/buds? I feel like it still sucks because you can’t use your dollar store wired sets, but there are enough cheap raycon clones out now that it’s hardly a guaranteed secondary sale at this point.
because you can’t use your dollar store wired sets, but there are enough cheap raycon clones out now that it’s hardly a guaranteed secondary sale at this point.
It’s more about not being able to use existing high-end headphones and IEMs. It’s wasteful and expensive to replace those.
There are workarounds of course, but it’s never as nice as having a real headphone jack to work with.
I already have a good set of headphones. I don’t want to buy new ones or adapters, especially when I can just buy a device that they can plug straight into
Look, I do understand, and it took me a while to buy into the wireless buds thing, but you could have made the same argument for PS/2 mouse and keyboards, or anything using mini, and then later, micro USB.
The fact is, if you want to keep your old peripherals, but upgrade your main compute device, at some point you need to accept that you’ll need an adapter.
The 3.5mm jack was first introduced in the 1950s as a mini version of the 6.5mm jack… which was used as far back as 1878… it’s had a hell of a run, but if you weigh the pros and cons fairly, wireless as a standard has drawbacks, but is actually, ultimately an upgrade and it’s well overdue.
I just think there are enough wireless options (and adapters) available now that it’s not fair to knock fairphone for this decision anymore.
My main issue with all of this is that I’m not interested in maintaining a charge for yet another wireless device.
I’m a frequent flier for work. My wired noise cancelling headphones run on a single AAA battery for 14+ hours straight. I can buy a small pack of AAA batteries at the airport in 30 seconds and get 60 hours of listening time. I don’t have to worry about putting them back in their carrying/charger case. I don’t have to worry about charging that case. If they go flat and I don’t have a spare AAA battery (the case actually has a convenient hole for a spare AAA), they still work, albeit with a noisier background. And they plug into in flight entertainment system headphone sockets. Haven’t seen a Bluetooth option on IFE systems yet.
Would I want to go jogging with my wired headphones? No. I do have a pair of bose wireless earbuds, and they’re nice. But every time I think about using them, they are flat in their charging case. I don’t want to have to keep the charging case on charge soooooo for 90 percent of my usage , the wired ones it is.
My noise-canceling, Bluetooth headphones in 2004 ran for 2 days, no problem (back when I was flying for work all the time).
“Another thing to charge” is a strawman. They all use C or micro today, and headphones use so little power your laptop can easily charge them. Or even your phone.
“Another thing to charge” is a strawman.
They are not functional for the time it takes to get a useful charge into them. I’ll just pause that movie and pop my buds back into their charging case for a while, it’s so convenient. So, like I said, you have to maintain their charge, alongside the other devices that have to have their charge maintained.
A lot of it has to do with BLE running constantly in the background (things like find my buds, “easy connect” features with their own management app tend to use it). If you fly like, once a week , and have a headset for flying, you need to check on its charge, as BLE will slowly grind it down to nothing while it sits in your travel bag.
My noise-canceling, Bluetooth headphones in 2004 ran for 2 days, no problem (back when I was flying for work all the time).
What brand were they? I bought my current set of Bose corded noise cancelling headphones in 2015 precisely because battery life in Bluetooth products was still reasonably abysmal. I’m guessing that they were one of the very first sets to come out, seeing that regular consumer Bluetooth headphones only appeared on the market in 2003.
What about their typically disposable nature?
Say I’m a fan of buds, but now I need wireless buds. No one makes ones that are made to have the battery replaced. They’re intended to be thrown away after the batteries wear out. While wired ones work forever, maybe needing a replacement cable, or to patch an existing cable… maybe.
Not to mention, audio quality. I’ll skip the buds quality themselves, bc some people claim to not be able to hear the difference… there are no bt headsets that have a mic that even approaches the quality of the old included buds from iPhones. None.
What about their typically disposable nature?
You mean the disposable nature of wired headphones with thin-as-hell 26/28 gauge wires that break if you look at them wrong?
I’ve broken more wired headsets than I’ve owned Bluetooth. I still have my ten+ year old noise-canceling bletooth headphones. I haven’t “disposed” them.
If things are disposed, it’s generally on the person, not the device.
I have multiple 2017 and older phones that still work, and get used as podcast/music players, security cameras, etc. I have a 1998 laptop I use to run Linux for testing. The batteries are toast, but so what.
Again, disposability is primarily a consumer issue, not a product one.
And I call BS on the sound quality. Given the nature of the source, and especially environments we’re in, noise is a huge factor. As for the microphone thing - the transport systems are far worse than what mics can do - “can you hear me” wouldn’t be a meme otherwise. Until that’s addressed it’s really a non-argument.
You’re arguing as if wireless audio is somehow better as ps2, etc was replaced by something better.
It’s simply not. You either buy a dumbass dongle or have to charge yet another thing. Along with that you can’t charge and listen to music at the same time without aforementioned dumb wireless ear buds.
It was a money grab, plain and simple. The 3.5 Jack is still monumentally viable and an asset.
It’s simply not.
Ye, well, that’s just, like, your opinion man…
But seriously, that highly subjective. I’ll take wireless over wired any day thanks. The inconvenience of having to charge the buds is not actually as bad as you’re making it out to be. You can charge and listen if you consider charging the case as still being charging the whole unit.
The convenience of not having to deal with the damm cables themselves outweighs the inconvenience of needing to occasionally charge them for me, and clearly I’m not alone.
Someone smarter than me can talk about audio quality over wireless, but when we’re talking about streaming music from Spotify, it’s moot anyway.
The fact is, for the vast majority of mobile users, wireless is an upgrade over wired.
But seriously, that highly subjective. I’ll take wireless over wired any day thanks.
You’re right, it is subjective. The point is, you don’t have to choose. You can have both and sacrifice nothing. But what you want is simply for everyone else to have fewer options.
Well that’s great because even if they include a jack you guys can all still have that.
you could have made the same argument for PS/2 mouse and keyboards, or anything using mini, and then later, micro USB.
You could but it would be a shit argument because that was a very logical and objective improvement and this is not.
The 3.5mm jack was first introduced in the 1950s
That is a pro, not a con. Because it means my headphones and other devices, regardless of how old, will still work just fine on brand new devices. Meanwhile your shitpod headphones will have to be thrown away after a year and you have to lick Tim Cook’s boots to buy another pair.
I just think there are enough wireless options (and adapters) available now that it’s not fair to knock fairphone for this decision anymore.
And all of them come with drawbacks, and having a headphone jack comes with none.
it would be a shit argument
This is fundamentally where we disagree. See my other comment
That is a pro, not a con
Never said it was a con, nor did I mean to imply that jacks are obsolete overall, only that it’s a valid move to not include them on a device that is primarily used to stream audio and thus doesn’t need the extra fidelity. Unless you want to try and tell me that Joe Public should be lugging around gigabytes of flac files?
lick Tim Cook’s boots
Lol, personally I prefer the taste of Han Jong-hee or Kenichiro Yoshida’s boots
jack comes with none.
Respectfully, this is rose tinted glasses talking. Do you know what my wireless buds workflow is?
- Open case
- Insert buds into ears and wait for “Bluetooth connected”
- Tap left bud
- Music plays.
Compare that to
- Pull out buds
- Untangle cord
- Pull out phone
- Fumble jack into the microphone hole for 2 minutes
- Look at device, and insert jack into correct hole.
- Unlock phone
- Open music app of choice
- Hit play
- Music plays
With wireless buds, I don’t even have to know exactly where my phone is. To say nothing of having to carry it around with me which, if you’re doing housework, or a workout can be a pain.
Also, anyone who’s ever had buds forcibly ripped from their ears because they’ve dropped their phone will tell you:
Wired buds ALSO have drawbacks
This is fundamentally where we disagree. See my other comment
I replied to “your other comment”.
only that it’s a valid move to not include them on a device that is primarily used to stream audio and thus doesn’t need the extra fidelity.
The fidelity is one of many many pros we have listed
Unless you want to try and tell me that Joe Public should be lugging around gigabytes of flac files?
I don’t understand what this has to do with anything.
Do you know what my wireless buds workflow is?
You’re missing the point. Pros and cons of each don’t matter because you don’t have to choose. You can have both. We had both, for decades. You can continue using whatever workflow you want. The existence of a headphone jack does not stop you from continuing to use Bluetooth. I was obviously referring to the cons of having the option of choosing wired.
I replied to “your other comment”.
I meant the one made elsewhere in this thread where I explain why I don’t think it’s a shit argument. I think the wireless is a legitimate upgrade over wired when we’re talking about a mobile phone.
The fidelity is one of many many pros we have listed
I don’t understand what this has to do with anything.I’m trying to point out that your “pro” of better fidelity doesn’t mean anything in a space where people aren’t using a lossless format, and so aren’t taking advantage of that extra fidelity anyway. This is admittedly an area I’m not strong in, so I could well be wrong, but I don’t think there’s any difference between wired and wireless when the source is Spotify.
you don’t have to choose.
Alright, this is fair. It would be great to keep the option for both. However, I don’t think it’s fair to knock Fairphone for not offering this option though, particularly because it takes space on the pcb and is an extra component cost (yes, a small one, I admit)
People are calling it a money grab move to not include a headphone jack, and I just don’t think that’s fair.
Tell me a pair of wireless headphones that are as good and around the same price as the moondrop Aria’s with extremely low latency (so they can be used for rhythm games) and can buy a replacement case for not too much.
Also Raycons are trash. Like they’re literally e-waste for how bad they are
Also Bluetooth’s audio quality is terrible when also using the microphone at the same time. So you can’t really make a call and enjoy listening to music at the same time
Who is listening to music on the same headset while making a phone call?
And why use your phone’s onboard DAC at that point if you want quality headphones?
And why use your phone’s onboard DAC at that point if you want quality headphones?
Some phones (LG) did actually come with a HQ DAC.
At that point you’re getting a very specific phone for a very specific purpose. It’s not the rule but the exception. So it doesn’t apply as a reason for any other phone. You’ve argued why the LG has a 3.5mm jack, not why Fairphone should have a 3.5mm jack. I’d also be curious as to how powerfully it can even drive headphones at that point. It must also have a stronger amplifier than most phones too. It’d be meaningless without it. What’s the point of high fidelity if it can’t drive headphones that can utilize it.
This is all getting away from the purpose of the Fairphone. It’s not a dedicated music player. It’s not advertising high fidelity music, psrticyij relation to other phones. I don’t think anyone is calling that LG phone “green” either.
Congratulations to anyone who can think of an edge case that wouldn’t apply to the Fairphone. Might as well mention a tensor chip not being in the Fairphone.
That was one of the main reasons I was interested in their phones :/
I miss that modular phone people went crazy about for a week or 2 until it died out
Google bought and killed it
I just keep a USB c dongle permanently attached to my wired headphones, I forget it’s there. It adds like 1" to the overall cable length. I basically just converted all my wired headphones into USB c headphones.
Any evidence for that theory? I guess I’ve used Bluetooth hesdphones for years, so I’ve not got skin in the game. Lots of android devices seem to not have a headphone jack. And each part removed is one less part to pay for, or replace, or have to water proof. I’ve not looked into it because I’m happy to trade sound quality for wireless convienece, but umarent headphones that use the usb c port comparable in quality to 3.5mm?
But if there’s a leaked memo or something that it was a concerted plan by the company that would certainly be bad.
You can also buy a cheap USB C-to-headphone-jack adapter.
The main reason they did it is to get a higher water-proof rating, making it easier to last longer.
No one doesn’t know that you can use an adapter. No one wants to carry that around. They cost money and you have to keep track of them. And you can’t charge the phone and listen simultaneously.
They did not do it to improve waterproofing. We have had several phones over the course of decades that were both very water resistant and included headphone jacks, so you can just stop with that capitalist non-sense.
Those phones were presumably glued together and not as repairable as the Fairphone is. Which is very useful, but does lower your waterproof rating, hence the need to compensate elsewhere.
I really feel like people are too quick to assume malice, generally. Often, there are just trade-offs with no clearly-right answer, and it’s not obvious to folks like us on the outside what those trade-offs are.
Please stop with water resistance nonsense. There were phones with headphone jacks that were waterproof.
Copying my reply to this same point from elsewhere:
Those phones were presumably glued together and not as repairable as the Fairphone is. Which is very useful, but does lower your waterproof rating, hence the need to compensate elsewhere.
I really feel like people are too quick to assume malice, generally. Often, there are just trade-offs with no clearly-right answer, and it’s not obvious to folks like us on the outside what those trade-offs are.
Galaxy S5 not only had a headphone jack and was water resistant but it had a removable battery as well.
Could you also replace the screen, camera’s, USB port, loudspeaker and earpiece with nothing but a screwdriver?
I don’t see how is exclusion of headphone jack going to help with water resistance if everything is held with screws anyway.
My guess would be that it’s one less hole that water/dust can get in?
Ok, Fairphone lied I guess. You obviously no better than the manufacturers. It’s not like other phones with those jacks likely cost more to water proof those jacks or anything. Everything is always exactly the same and doesn’t cost extra to do anything differently.
Judging by how much phones cost I expect them to be water resistant and have headphone jack. And besides, Fairphone said they removed it because it was a “point of failure” while conveniently releasing their own wireless headphones.
Louis Rossman was very against this idea, and gotta say I side with him on this.
Would be helpful if you could share why he was against that idea.
It has been a long time since I watched his video, don’t remember what his points were but check it out for yourself. Here.
Hehe thanks, I’m not a fan of watching videos, but I understand you don’t feel like rehashing the points here either :)
I might get flack for this but I despise them for their greenwashing. removing the headphone jack to sell their own Bluetooth headphones was mmmmmmh move at best.
I despise people repeating comments. How is making the device cheaper, more sustainable, and more reliable greenwashing? I would love anybody who just loves complaining about the headphones jack to explain that. No one else has. I doubt anybody complaining really cares about the environment either. What phone do you currently have?
How is removing the jack making the device more sustainable or reliable?
It allowed them to increase the IP rating, allows for simplified manufacturing, and easier maintainability and repairability.
How is not including it considered greenwashing (I notice you didn’t ask about that, so I assume you know the answer)?
Plenty of electronics have been able to get IP ratings while still having headphone jacks. It’s a trivial part to include as it is practically an ancient bit of tech and doesn’t introduce some kind of massive complexity to the device. Repair is a simple swap of the module. Nothing you’re saying has anything to do with supporting your claim of its removal leading to greater sustainability or reliability. Its materials are no different from the rest of the phone, meaning it’s just as sustainable as the rest of the parts, and it’s not a part that’s prone to failure, meaning it’s just as reliable as the rest.
For more cost. And again, their question was how does it affect reliability. I provided other reasons. This is like fucking whackamole. Folks just responding to the random comment that was responding to one specific thing and then pretending like it’s the entire fucking argument. This whole thread is filled with idiots. Jacks have been left out of most flagship phones for a couple years now. This honestly smells like a fake grassroots attack on the Fairphone because they pay people fucking living wages instead of goddamn slave wages. The headphone jack was never a selling point of the phone. And it’s not like you need to buy their headphones.
And headphone jacks are absolutely prone to failure. That’s just objectively fucking false ignorant of electronics. It’s an additional component. Maintainability and reliability inherently goes down if you add components. It’s not magically a part of the fucking PCB. It’s soldered on and then anytime a headphone plug is put in, it will put stress on the solder joints anytime it moves. Did you just fucking guess and hope you’re right about “it’s just as reliable”?
This thread is shit. I’m done here. Can I just block an entire post to stop seeing asinine replies from jackasses who probably don’t even have a headphone jack on their current phone?
Lol, what a tantrum. I responded directly to the points you raised and this epic rant is your reply.
For more cost? Headphone jacks are not even remotely expensive. Yes, they’ve been left out of a number of other phones for several years now. I and many others complained about it then and we’re still complaining about it now. This isn’t a Fairphone specific complaint, but it does suck to see yet another company go this route. And I promise you, headphone jacks have no bearing on the shit pay practices of the entire smartphone industry.
I didn’t say headphone jacks don’t ever fail. Maybe reread what I wrote before you go on a rant. Look up failure rates of headphone jacks vs other components and you’ll see that they’re not more prone to failure than other components. And why would the headphone jack in a Fairphone be soldered on? To make it repairable, shouldn’t it be a separate module you can swap out if it does fail? By your own logic, they should take USB ports out of phones for the very same reasons they removed headphone jacks. And who knows, maybe that’s where the market will go. As for me, my next phone will be a Sony Xperia, since they still make high end phones with SD card slots, headphone jacks, and have bezels for the front facing camera so you don’t interrupt the screen. These are all features important to me, so that’s where my money will go when it comes time to replace my 4 year old phone.
Also, great use of ad hominems and “you’re all shills!” when you’re confronted with things you can’t refute. This thread isn’t shit, but your poor grasp of logic, name calling, and goalpost shifting sure is. And yes, you can mute an entire post. The exact process will depend on if you’re using the website or the specific app, but I’m sure if you go to the support community of whatever you’re using and ask them in the same charming way you’re speaking here, you’ll get the help you need to mute this whole post.
It’s honestly kinda hilarious that the person defending the anti-consumer choice to remove features is accusing those upset about their removal of shilling.
The way i understand it, they ditch the jack so they can sell ppl their earbuds while claiming it’s about the environment. No idea if that’s true, but i don’t really care about this angle. Also, regarding the IP rating, you could add a rubber flap over it, pretty sure some CAT phones had that. Still, my biggest gripe is the jack situation, though a secondary sim slot and a smaller screen would be nice.
Personally, the best phone for me, that i know of, would be a Galaxy XCover 5 - small, durable, removable battery, jack, dedicated microsd slot and dualsim. Shame it doesn’t support any variant of degoogled android.
I don’t agree with the OP that removing the jack is a mortal sin. However having worked in related induatries, I don’t think removing it really saves much if any money and it is entirely possible to make a phone or any other electronic device water resistant even with a headphone jack. Hell you can get wired ear buds that can be submerged in water.
I know it wasn’t mentioned specifically, but even fairly cheap watches will be water proof to like 30 meters and still have a user replacable battery.
I just wish companies would be honest about it.
The usual argument is “FP5 bad because no headphone jack, I choose Nokia or Samsung”… I guess if you’re not even trying to have a fair and sustainable supply chain, that’s totally fine.
Don’t have many options if i need the headphone jack
You have $5 options.
can’t get a phone for 5$
You can get a phone jack adapter for $5 moron.
shit solution, spend more money to fix a design fuckup
Fair and sustainable supply chains shouldn’t mean I have to throw out perfectly good electronics at home, such as wired headphones, because this company wants to save a trivial amount of money. Keeping the headphone jack means a greater level of sustainability because I don’t have to replace other fully functional electronics to use with this phone.
Here we go again… Adapters exist, nobody is forcing you to literally throw away your headphones. If the small inconvenience of using an adapter is so overwhelming for you that you’ll throw the whole sustainability argument right out the window and go for a company that doesn’t give two shits about it, then go for it. But don’t claim that sustainability matters to you, because it obviously doesn’t.
Yeah I bought a phone without a headphone jack. So I bought a little adapter and keep it in my case. Then my headphones started to fail and I got a pair that could do both Bluetooth and aux. Now I have headphones that can be used with a dead battery or can be used without a wire. Win-win.
Would I prefer a headphone jack? Yes. But the adapter lives on the end of the removable aux cable, so the functional difference is minimal. Especially since I also have wireless charging, so I can avoid the very minor “can’t charge and use AUX at the same time” problem.
I’m afraid your experience and opinion is just too nuanced for some people here. It really seems like you’re doubting our lord and saviour the headphone jack, so let the downvotes commence!
Here we go again… I know adapters exist. I have one. If I didn’t, my wired headphones and my wired aux port in my car would be unusable. If the large ecological footprint of an entire new product line that’s completely unnecessary being spun up to use a whole bunch of excess materials that didn’t need to be used to just keep the existing headphone jacks doesn’t bother you, maybe you’re the one throwing the whole sustainability argument out the window because you clearly don’t give two shits about it.
So you have an adapter and are fine using it - where’s the problem? In your last comment you said you’d have to throw away your headphones, which seems really disingenuous now.
You now have the choice of a) buying a sustainably sourced and fairly produced phone without a headphone jack or b) buying a phone of questionable sustainability and fairness with a headphone jack. The choice is really obvious if you ask me, considering the adapter is a sunk cost to the environment and you.
Do the adapters grow on trees? How does creating an entirely new and wholly unnecessary product line match up with any sort of sustainability standards? Seems pretty disingenuous to me. Try looking at the big picture and not just the actions of a single company in isolation.
If I’m gonna focus on the headphone jack then I could simply say that it’s already a cheap and reliable part that provides better quality sound that Bluetooth most of the time. Wired headphones are also way cheaper to buy and in my experience easier to fix. the Bluetooth earphones when their battery starts dying down or gets damaged will be thrown away and create more waste.
Wether this company IMHO is greenwashing OR the competition on the mobile segment is just too great and I want to believe the latter.
I think that the phone is also way too expensive, yes the phone is repairable but the components are still quite expensive to replace (although very easy to do so).
Fairphone has made too many faux pas with this one.
As for my phone, I am not a reference in that matter I upgraded to a zenfone 10 that I intend to keep for 4 years (until no more security updates). the phone cannot get it’s bootloader unlocked but I’m not going to dive into that at this point. A small phone with a decent headphone jack with latest specs and big amount of storage.
I am in Asia and I had a degoogled phone but it’s extremely hard and inconvenient most of the time (even with microg). so anyway just to say I won’t be tinkering with the phone just using open source apps as much as possible.
Did they mention warranty for the headphones?
I agree removing the headphone jack is annoying, but I’m sure the Bluetooth works with any device that supports the format, not just theirs. Apple tries to push Apple stuff and they know their stupid user base will buy the Apple version if they have it, but I doubt the same is true here. If they had a wired and wireless headphone, would you suspect them to be trying to force you to buy their headphones still with the 5mm jack?
The main thing about Fairphone is not the phone but the supply chain.
https://www.fairphone.com/en/impact/
Nothing is perfect and a phone cannot make happy every one (is there a jack or not …). But I’m happy that they try to make a good phone with all the hidden things in mind (from where come from the rough material, who is making the pieces and in which conditions …). That’s more important for me then the final product.
Yeah when I need to get a new phone I’m 100% getting a FairPhone. My last phone lived for multiple years past the security updates. All my phones over the years have died to some trivial problem that wasn’t worth fixing (e.g. bad charging port). But a fixable phone with eight years of security updates? Sign me the fuck up. The only reason my current phone isn’t a FairPhone is because they didn’t sell in the US when I needed a new one.
Where’s the headphone jack?
I’m contemplating getting the fairphone 5. The usb c port on my last few phones were getting very loose at the end of the use. Making it a hassle using it in my car. One steep curve, and the phone slides making the connection get loose.
If I get the fairphone 5 I will immediately get a USB c replacement for future proofing.
It’s annoying charging my phone at night and waking up to an almost empty phone because the cable got loose when I set it on my bedside table.
I had to replace the USB C port on my Fairphone 3, took about €30 and 10 minutes.
In any other phone it would’ve meant getting a complete new device
It’s actually surprisingly easy to do on a OnePlus 5T. I did it after cleaning out the port wasn’t good enough anymore (my phone was bought secondhand/refurb, and I also recently replaced the battery too . - overall the cost of both endeavours including the cheapo kit to get the thing open in the first place was on the order of £25, though I did lose the two screws for the USB port that connext it to the bottom, still works fine with the other two internal screws though 🤣).
Eventually secondhand parts will stop being available on ebay, but for now its all good ;p. Though if your screen breaks it’s probably not worth it to replace, that part alone seems to be half the secondhand-price of a lot of phones all on it’s own >.<
I have replaced a micro usb port on an old phone before. But because it’s hard soldered it takes a lot of effort and time. I wouldn’t want to try that with usb c because it has way more leads.
Some devices have the port on the mobo. I canonly think ione I’ve owned like this.
All my other phones it’s been replaceable.
Meh, I could replace entire bottom board on my Xiaomi Mi4 in about 10 minutes. Way back in 2014, best phone I’ve ever owned.
Probably not your problem, but my completely different phone (oneplus 7 pro)has been pretty solid. But, lint and dust gathered into the port, making some of the plugs extremely loose to the point it would fall out from the weight of the cable… I took a needle and scraped out the compacted lint at the bottom. (avoiding touching the middle thing in the port. Good as new afterwards, even the one cable I’ve been using with the phone since 2019 which is pretty loose after use now, still sits without problems when moving the phone around.
But I’d definitely suggest cleaning it out if you haven’t. Even the small specs you get out makes a big difference. My powerbank came wouldn’t stay in, after cleaning it’s more well behaved. But there’s a clear difference in USB-c plugs and how they fit phones.
use a toothpick so you can’t short anything
Thanks, I have a oneplus 7T and I have been cleaning it. It’s just very loose now. Been scraping the harder to clean parts with a toothpick, and the rest with a toothbrush. It just isn’t working for me. Might have to try a needle now.
If the 7T is constructed anything like the 5T then replacing the USB port is an inexpensive and relatively easy weekend project. You just undo a couple of T5 screws, pop off the back, undo a couple more screws and replace the assembly. The hard part is not losing the screws.
Considering software support period is over I don’t think it’s worth the hassle of getting the back off. The oneplus security update period is also abysmal.
I looked up how to get the back off.
Also a reason I’m contemplating the fairphone 5. Just pull off the back and a few screws later it’s pretty much done. I don’t want to mess with a heat gun to open up my phone.
Had that issue before, annoying as fuck. My latest one has a case with a small cap for the USBC port. Eliminated the problem. Love it.
I really wanted to get this phone, but at 850Eur that’s a hard pass from me. I could let the lack of jack and FM radio slide, as well as some design choices that they made, as sacrifices need to be made to make it modular. But I can find that hardware in phones that cost a quarter of a Fairphone. And then there is the repair cost, where the parts cost almost twice as much as getting a non-fair phone repaired at a shop (even moreso if I were to use aliexpress parts and home repair). Again, I fully expect a repairable and fair-source phone to perform worse than a regular one, but this is like paying iPhone money for a Xiaomi midranger.
Also, the 8 year warrranty feels like a scam because the chip they use will be out of production in 4-5 years.Of course it’s more expensive than other phones with similar specifications.
The main point here isn’t to be fair to consumers by allowing them to repair their phones and giving them upgrades. The main point is to create a phone that is paying living wages to those producing it, and uses as many recycled minerals as possible and seeks to not be an absolute disaster for the planet.
If people stopped a while to wonder why their smaprtphoens are so goddamn cheap, I think people would be lining up to pay more for them. It’s not even remotely sustainable.
I’ve been corrected on the price - looks like I was using an older quote.
I do realize that their point is to make the phone’s manufacturing process fairer, but their older models were more decently priced, so I wonder how much of that tag is actually due the higher cost of manufacturing.
Still, since people switch phones a lot earlier than EoL, it would be nice if there was a way to discourage the frequent switching ( for marginal performance gains ) and instead encourage keeping smartphones until EoL ( which, granted, for some manufacturers is less than 2 years )
Fairphone is a social enterprise, and most Dutch companies presenting themselves as such are actually held to certain standards.
I haven’t confirmed this myself, but I wouldn’t be surprised if they actually publish all of their expenses so you can do the math yourself.
They have published a full breakdown for an earlier model: Over here
Oh wow I didn’t know they published the cost breakdowns for some of their models thats really cool! Thank you for posting that
Regular companies have an obligation to deposit their annual accounts with the chamber of commerce, but social enterprises tend to go above and beyond because their focus is not on economic gain, but on socio-economic gain.
There is no legal obligation to do anything special when you call yourself a social enterprise, that I know of. But using the description for bragging rights does put your company under increased scrutiny from the community and from researchers.
All kinds of modeling methods have been invented to make social-economic impact part of the businessmodel. Some of those methods are even similar to Alex Osterwalder’s widely used Business Model Canvas.
Some social enterpreneurs also make use of specific constructions using certain legal forms to prevent shareholders from steering the company away from its original goal. For example: some will opt to make a “stichting” (foundation) the majority shareholder of the main company. The stichting having auditing and course correction as their main purpose.
If you would like to know more about social enterprises, the dutch chamber of commerce has published a great article (in english) on the subject.
Are we using different websites? It’s 700 euro for me, not 850. Also it’s 5 year warranty and 8 years of updates.
Yeah, just noticed the new price. It’s not available in my country yet so I was quoting the one listed on gsmarena. At 700Eur it does make more sense, as it’s a similar price to the old Fairphone in 8gb guise.
Wish it had a jack
I don’t see the big deal about headphone jacks. If you really want wired headphones, stick a dongle on the end of the cable and leave it there. It’s almost exactly the same, except you can’t charge and listen at the same time - not really something I would worry about.
All this accomplishes is an unnecessary inconvenience. I shouldn’t have to lug additional cables, and far more importantly the choice between Wired/Wireless should be up to me, not the manufacturer
It’s like complaining a new PC doesn’t come with USB-A and only USB-C.
Design decisions shouldn’t always be up to the end user. Every single option can’t always be included forever and ever.
If you want wired for quality, you need a DAC anyway. If you want wired otherwise, leave the adapter on your headphones.
Don’t let your inability to adapt stifle actual developmental progress.
Removing things that loads of customers want because you want to sell them Bluetooth headphones is not progress lol
Jesus Christ, they do? Add it to the list then, i ain’t buying a computer without USB A ports. Also, taking choices away from the user is the shittest excuse for progress i have ever seen or heard of
That USBC dongle will sound much much better than the weak DAC they’d pair with the headphone jack anyway.
I have a headphone jack on my 4a but I still use the dongle because the dongle can actually drive speakers.
This point is frequently overlooked imo
These comments remind me about how when you try to do something great, the vast majority of the feedback will be from people who were never going to buy into your idea in the first place. The fact that they’re on version 5 tells me there’s demand for an ethically sourced, user-repairable phone with a long support life. Go start your own phone company if you don’t like it.
The only reason i don’t buy it is because it’s too big. Particularly for a phone i would commit to for a longer lifespan, the physical design needs to be without compromise, and i know that the moment someone releases a half-way decent mini Android phone, i will drop whatever phone i have and buy that instead.
I fear you’ll be waiting a long time.
I fear that too. But so long as my current phone holds out, there’s no point buying into another compromise upfront.
So… The Asus Zenfone 10?
That’s the same size as an iPhone 15 or Galaxy S23, not “mini”.
I had a Zenfone 6. It got a whopping 1 software update. It is otherwise a very nice-looking phone but that is unacceptable. And to my knowledge they haven’t committed to anything more than that.
We ever figure out if this can be unlocked? I know it was then it wasn’t, etc.
As far as I know it can.
I think Sony still releases decent small phones
The smallest I’ve seen Sony recently releasing was the Xperia 5 V, which is 6.1". Similar to iPhone 15, S23, ZenFone and Pixel 8, just i think taller and narrower. I tried it in person, but it still felt ‘big’.
I already struggle with the keyboard on what I’d call a sizeable Android phone.
Luckily if you are looking for an even larger phone for a scaled up keyboard, you have plenty of options. I don’t have the same struggle with the keyboard, and would happily use a 4" screen phone if one were available.
This post has devolved into shit and filled with a bunch of whiners complaining about the same dumb shit that isn’t a goal of this phone. Might as well whine the new iPhone doesn’t cost under $400 for as reasonable of a complaint anything on this post is.
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The Fairphone 4 did eventually make it to the US, so I’m hopeful that we’ll eventually get the 5 too. According to GSMArena it already supports the necessary LTE/5G bands for my US network.
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Bummer.
Looks like it has all the necessary bands for Australian networks, too, so this seems like a licensing/distribution issue more than a technical issue. I really hope they release globally at some point. I will consider importing one if I can find it at a good price.
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Can’t get one off eBay or something?
An article I came across said there are no plans for the 5 in the US, so not at the moment at least.
Occasionally sluggish performance
Wonder how it will be in 5 years. Personally think you’d be better of buying high end now and keeping it longer. Also I never had any component fail on my Samsung devices (except screen but that was self inflicted and the repair prices of samsung are more than fair). Same with iPhones, they are way more durable than fairphones.
I don’t know of any high end Android phone manufacturer that promises security updates for >5 years. If you want to keep your phone that long or even longer, there are few choices unless you want to be vulnerable.
Also, I have no idea what exactly “more durable” is supposed to mean, but I’m very much certain that Apple’s and Samsung’s batteries degrade the same and their screens also crack when dropped. A replacement part and the repair will be significantly cheaper with FairPhone, especially for people who don’t want or dare to do it themselves because of anti-repair measures by the manufacturers.
For reference, a replacement screen for FP5 costs 100€ and comes with straightforward instructions from the manufacturer. An Apple screen replacement will cost you 340€ and there are no official ways to get replacement parts or do the repair yourself. You have to pay half a FP5’s worth just for an iPhone screen repair.
Edit: Spelling correction
Samsung and Google promise 5 years of updates. Google is said to provide more with the pixel 8.
Samsung charges 140 to 175 € for a repair on the s23. While almost twice as much as the fairphone, I still think its fair. I have to agree that what apple charges is way to much but that’s how it is.
As for durable I meant no random hardware fails. They are incredibly long lasting. My galaxy s4 and s6 still work to this day.
I’ve used pixel phones for a long time, but I’ll eat my hat if Google actually honors more than 5 years of updates for the pixel 8.
Sceurity updates shmecurity updates. How many stories of someone bank account being robbed through old android vunerbality have you heard about. Im not saying they are worthelss beacuse Obviusly its better to be secured than not but they really shouldnt be a factor when choosing whetewer to buy a new phone or keep using old one. Especialy if you are like a year behind or something similar.
@redditReallySucks imo, as long as Google Play Services gets updated on your device, you shouldn’t have many issues. E.g. check how backwards compatible are apps on Android
Yep, still use my S10e which is almost 5 years old. Still as perfect as day 1. Not sure what to buy next, as small and as durable as this one…
I still use my Note 9 from time to time and it’s extremely responsive. The only thing I notice is the low refresh rate of the screen.
I forget, bargaining is which stage of grief?
wasn’t it the 2nd?
Oh yay, a roadmap. For a hardware device…
Have you ever heard the terms “security update”, “firmware” and “OS”? Then you should know why a “roadmap” or rather a support plan is necessary. Many other manufacturers aren’t even providing concrete plans and simply stop providing security updates after just a few years.
Weird. I could have sworn software comes on it too. Your phone doesn’t have software?
My last fairphone died of a busted motherboard, which wasn’t replacable. Since then I am kinda sceptical about the “repairable” part.
