Yay! Please stick with this, EU! I hope this spreads globally. 🥂
Most every major company tries to build a walled garden. Apple does so via apps and services, services like netflix do by making sure you can’t watch shows on any other service (arr!), or even something as simple as cordless tools that have proprietary batteries and chargers where it gets really expensive to have to buy different batteries.
Most every major company isn’t entrenched in people’s lives as deeply as apple is though. If I want to leave Netflix it’s as easy as switching subscriptions. If I want to leave Apple I need months of migration and multiple product replacements.
Or at least that’s what it looks like to someone who has avoided Apple their whole life, it was apparent to me as a teen that the walled garden was a trap. The iPhone and iPhone 3g where the only and last peices of apple hardware I’ve ever owned.
You’re right on all counts. It is not cheap and easy to migrate away from apple, and some apps may not have an equivalent.
I’ve been anti-apple most of my life for multiple reasons, and I still am, however my work uses apple products for the employees so it just made sense to have my own as well. I deeply recognize the walled garden Apple has created, and the only products of theirs we use are those associated with the mobile devices. We buy nothing else apple; no laptops, no desktops, no backup, TV, etc.
Destroys their entire business model 😂
Their entire business model has been to focus on systems that lock people in and exclude people who are out. None of this is done for security or as a means for the best possible customer experience. It’s done for the sole purpose of forcing income they couldn’t achieve with innovation alone. I’ve heard so many tech reviewers and even my own personal friends who say they would love to switch if only to try something else. They say they’d switch today if their friends, family and coworkers wouldn’t get mad at them. Apples only real innovation over the past ten years has been built in social pressure.
This is why the only Apple product I’ve owned was a free iPad. It feels claustrophobic to be trapped in their ecosystem.
The only Apple product I’ve owned was my first smartphone an iPhone 4, Never again.
Trying to get my family to use signal and its like pulling teeth. “Dont you want to be on the same messaging app as everyone”, “sure but you’re the one with a problem”
Mate, I only have a problem because of you!
And the air pods was often referenced to look like condoms, on reddit
Ice cream cones, no?
Well, they did get them to switch to USB-C, so I’m not holding my breath, but I do hope that this will lead to more interoperability. I’m tired of Apple making Android/non-Apple users feel like second-class citizens.
I have to agree. Switching to USB-C is a big step, but I doubt Apple will become more interoperable unless they are forced to.
I still don’t think that one was actually the EU’s doing. Macs got USB C before most PCs, iPads had it for a long time before iPhones, and iPhones switched over 10 years after Apple announced lightning saying it would be their connector “for the next decade”
Apple got an special exemption the last time the EU standardised the port to Micro-USB.
The writing would have been on the wall for them. Especially as thunderbolt 3+ uses the USB-C connector, there was no guarantee the EU would give them exception again, and lightning is almost certainly not designed to handle the wattage needed to charge a Mac.
But otherwise, if not compelled, I doubt that Apple would have carried it over to the mobile devices. The timing is fortuitous, but likely because Apple has a little leeway before the EU forbade their devices/fined them for not following the law.
Even then, for whatever reason, a (grantedly cheap) 3,5mm->USB-C adapter my dad bought didn’t work at all on his iPhone while it works just fine on my Android
I was so hyped when the EU pressured Apple into allowing external software on Apple devices.
Apple killed that hype making the change EU only, problem is I’m encapsulated in the walled garden with an iPhone, iPad, Apple TV, Air Tags, HomePods.
Thinking of getting a second phone Android based to partially-escape the garden but if I ditch my iPhone all hell will break loose network wise.
ditch the homepod and don’t replace it with any other spyware, and replace the rest as needed.
ditch the homepod and don’t replace it with any other spyware
Family has gotten use to the HomePod being around, makes simple things like settings timers for cooking or other related task a bit easier.
And yeah, I’m aware it’s spyware. I wanted a “smart-home” and essentially landed on Apple products.
What is homepod? Like Amazon Alexa?
yeah, and if you want something that doesn’t spy on you your only real option is home assistant.
Home assistant is great and apart from voice recognition, its infinitely more powerful than any corporate home automation product. Voice is tough to do locally and on low powered hardware, but its getting there.
they have something that claims to be able to do it, I haven’t personally verified it, but generic on device voice recognition has gotten pretty decent.
Sorry but the only way out of that is to stop buying apple products
I get the design choice, it looks nice, but the hardware is rather trashy and both hardware and software are hostile to it’s users. That won’t ever change
I was you up until 3 months ago. I went nuclear and focused on the more open source side of android and have been so much happier for it. Sold everything to afford the changes.
With android you can change the os if your into it, developer at least.
Yeah I was looking into Linux based mobile OS’s and I’ve come to the consensus that hardware selection is very limited.
I was very interested in GrapheneOS but unfortunately it’s for Pixel phones only.
dint notice that, i though OP12r could do it too.
Some phones only. Or at least that is how it used to be when I had one not too long ago. The boot loader had the be unlocked and some apps like banks or Google pay refused to work at the time (or maybe it was if you had root enabled).
I honestly don’t get it. It’s their product. Why are entire countries getting involved in how they design and distribute their own IP?
It is in the public interest to regulate companies. This is the best tool we have to promote a healthy market with fair competition, and to ensure companies make safe products that aligns with the public interest.
Perhaps instead of watering down one company, maybe all the others should be inspired to make better quality products that can compete with them.
Because- and this is only my opinion, allowing governments to control how a company manages their IP is a slippery slope to go down.
But what if a company is too powerful and has an unfair advantage in the market?
For example: Say a company is able to make excellent ear buds – the best in the market. Apple obviously doesn’t want to loose out on AirPods profit, so they then decide to deliberately make it a poor user experience to use other ear buds on Macs and Iphones. Now it is impossible for better ear buds to compete with AirPods because Apple abuses an unfair market advantage. Furthermore, this heavily decentivices other companies from even entering the market.
I see your point about the dangers of allowing governments to overregulate companies, but it is also dangerous to let companies freely do whatever they want. Share holders will happily screw over consumers and society for a tiny increase in profit.
In my opinion, right now there exists too many unhealthy markets – especially in technology – and I would like to see more regulations akin to what EU is doing. US is dropping the ball hard on this one.
I get what you’re saying, and while I don’t have a better solution to offer- I just know that the solution they’re offering now is a bad idea. It’s opening the doors to govt/nation controlled IP.
And that is bad for everyone.
Huge win!
It’s a shame Epic lost this lawsuit in the US because “just switch to Android”
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There should be a porn movie with that headline
I have no doubt the EU won’t have much mercy for American corporations going* forward.
My phone REALLY wants me to type gong. Gong gong gong gong gong.
We don’t need no friends, allies or influence when we can be bullying, a child’s concept of tough, looking up to other dictators like Putin and Erdogan. Im sure all it will take is loud threats of widespread tariffs and a stable Genius who’s “great” at deals.
“Coincidentally” Apple might make sizable
bribesindependent donations to support the free and open re-election of The fuhrerGo ahead, this is a safe space. Get it out of your system.
Gong gong, gonging gong gong!
Let me see that gong…gong gagong gong gong
When apple announced messaging would be cross platform nobody else adopted it. Any idea why?
Oh yeah one reason: Apple won’t be forced to open up iMessage by EU (2024)
In the eu literally nobody is using iMessage, so it doesn’t fall under dma laws.
bro be like
Hopefully this actually leads to something lasting, but I don’t have high hopes considering how Europe is getting dragged atm
I mean the EU made them allow app stores but Apple made a complete mockery of them by requiring their rubber stamp and charging “only” 27% fee and the EU is just letting them get away with that so yeah, I have little faith.
There isn’t really any getting away with. If what Apple does is within the law then the EU can’t prevent it. I’m sure somebody is looking into preventing Apple from doing it, but propper legislation takes time.
There isn’t really any getting away with.
But they are. Right now.
propper legislation takes time
They should have thought of that when they created the legislation.
Maybe Nintendo, Sony and MS will be next?
I want a 3rd party store on all my consoles, why can’t I?
Not skilled enough hackerboy 😉🫶🏻
Mod your damn consoles!
While I don’t think people get consoles without homebrew being unlocked first it is still better for homebrew to be unlocked on day 1
It will also give the possibility of open development
😮how got my obviously joking answer so many down votes??
Of course it would be better if the console come open already
I personally just love the hacking part of following hacks.guide
Finally. We all about to see better prices and more features. If this ends in lower app store fees, its a massive win for every app company in the world!
I thought that “walled-garden” was for security and privacy in the case of Apple? I always relied on them for that.
That’s the lie they tell you, yeah.
Nope, it was so they could take the 30% cut of every penny that is spent on one of their platforms, and also so that it would be extremely inconvenient to leave their ecosystem since doing so would mean leaving behind most of your data.
It’s both of those things. Just like Sony, Xbox, Nintendo, Steam, etc. They take 30% in exchange for exposure, security, and a reliable platform. It’s a trade off. Worth it to some, not to others.
Steam doesn’t belong in that list because you’re free to use whatever game store you want on a PC. No computers are limited to only using Steam.
Not even their own hardware, the steam deck, was in any way closed down. Quite the opposite actually.
And now SteamOS is being used in other platforms, so you can use the software on other hardware vendors if you like
Of those steam is the only one that doesn’t force you to buy software through them on their own hardware. Obviously they would like you to, but you are free to buy elsewhere.
Aren’t all Xbox games on windows now? Either through steam, the Microsoft store, or gamepass?
You still have the freedom to not use alternative app stores.
I don’t get the argument. It’s not like you are forced to buy iPhones, there a plenty of brands available. According to recent data iOS is 30% of the market while android is almost 70% (in Europe). I used android phones for most of my life. I tried to install alternative OS few time but my banking apps all refused to execute. There were always plenty of apps that were forbidden to remove (Facebook, Samsung applications,…). Then 4 years ago I bought an iPhone. No preinstalled shitty news app, Facebook, etc. Was even able to uninstall the default apps that I do not use. I feel to have much more freedom than before. Apple is not perfect by any means but it’s far from being a prison.
Yea, now try to get away from apple again
They have me as well, because I am connected with my family through various apple only features now. Apple One, apple family share, location sharing with family, mail service, photos in the cloud, and a lot more
My family would rather gift me an iPhone than switching all to FOSS services, hell, even only switching my GF to not iOS is pain.
From a market regulation view it is more of a prison than Android.
An example is apps have to use WebKit. That’s right Firefox for iOS doesn’t use Gecko and Google Chrome for iOS doesn’t use Chromium. - That’s the walled garden.as long as you don’t want to do some crazy unthinkable thing, like, say, getting notifications on your smartwatch that isn’t made by Apple
I’m having trouble conceptualizing the words you just used in my brain.
What other brands are available to use for iOS?
My Android phone (Realme) allowed me to uninstall most pre-installed bloatware.
Vertical integration is bad, m’kay?
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You can certainly argue that more control makes iPhones safer, since its harder to get malicious software on the phone. But Apple is also abusing their control for their own gain.
You could also argue that locking you in a room would be safer than letting you walk freely out in the world. But I don’t we want that either.
If people want a phone that acts like an android, just buy an android.
Why are people trying to make iPhones into androids?
Well, but it is just as hard to find exploits for white heads, and this leads to open exploits that last for ages, even if actively used by black heads.
There is no security by obfuscation
I dunno, are meals provided in the locked room? The world is a pretty fucking awful place right now.
Yes but only oatmeal (no toppings).
Oh goddamnit
The security approach was what first drew me to Apple back in like 2005. The whole focus on proprietary software that resulted in practically zero malware was definitely worth me having to do file-type conversions on documents and all that crap to keep up with people on Windows. And I loved it. And I kept adding every device and loving how seamless they all interact with each other.
But then there’s that shadow side you refer to. The gradual dumbing down of software, the constant hand-holding. The walled garden began to feel like a lock-in.
My last new Mac purchase was in 2011. I still use that machine. But I was not getting security updates and other things I use were leaving me behind so I decided to give Linux a try. Chose Ubuntu and the hardware was suddenly like new again. Apple makes beautiful machines but waste them on some increasingly basic software. My Linux-run Macs have made me fall in love with computers all over again.
If this somehow results in me being able to run like Graphene on my iPhone in a few years, or even connect my Apple Watch to a non-Apple phone, I will be pretty excited.
Honestly, fuck security. I want every app on my phone to phone home to other malicious app stores with all my personal data. I want them to install backdoor VPNs that tunnel all my data to a man in the middle. I want them to allow me to jailbreak my phone so I can install permanent rootkits, that way adversaries can reload their botnets even after I factory reset my phone.
On the real, i appreciate Apple for what they’ve done so far. If this happens, ill have to move back to GrapheneOS. Which is fine, but its just so much more time that I have to spend on making the phone work versus working on the phone.
We should force the entire EU to mandate GrapheneOS on all phones. Well see how much they enjoy the experience.
As a tinkerer, stuff like Linux and Graphene are right up my alley. But as a dude with a job and family I just don’t have the time anymore. Apple is far from perfect but their security/privacy efforts are the lesser of the evils for almost no extra time/thinking required from me so they’re the ideal option for now. Really hope all these laws don’t muck that up.
Should you stay with using the Apple app store. It absolutely nothing bad about this decision it gives people the option to use an alternate app store if they want but it doesn’t force anyone to.
The amount of bad faith arguments in this thread are disturbing for supposedly informed tech savvy people.
it gives people the option to use an alternate app store if they want but it doesn’t force anyone to.
That argument sounds great in theory, but would break down after a month or less, when companies start moving their apps off of Apple’s App Store and onto a 3rd party store that allows all the spyware Apple has forced them to remove if they want to have an iOS market. This move DOES force people to use alternate app stores when companies start moving (not copying, moving) their apps over to said stores to take advantage of the drop in oversight.
It’s so weird. I can kind of understand this level of ignorance on other platforms, but here? The platform a majority of the people actively sought out because they saw what happens when a walled gardens starts turning against its users?
At the very least, I would’ve expected better arguments than “I don’t want this, so I oppose other’s from having that option.”
There is a ton of fanboyism around Apple, same as there was for Musk some years ago.
I love BRAND is just another form of tribalism and one that Apple cultivated for themselves for decades.
(Curiously, going down the thread I saw fewer Apple fanboys that one would find in, say, Reddit)
Can you provide a single real life example of an apple “fanboy” that you have encountered?
The obvious Apple fanboy is the kind of person who sings praises to every single new version of every Apple product even when it barelly differs from the last one, never criticizes their products and goes to a queue outside an Apple store the evening of the day before a new release of an Apple product to be one of the first to buy it next morning when the store opens.
I’ve personally came across a couple of people just like that over the years.
(Granted, they were more common a decade or so ago)
Every single person here doggedly defending Apple’s choice whose argument boils down to “it’s fine it’s as I like it” (whilst ignoring that everybody else has their own likes and dislikes) to justify Apple only having a closed-down environment without an open environment as another option, is probably a fanboy.
“I love it the way it is” isn’t logical, it’s emotional, and there really isn’t a natural human tendency (in most people) to want to have their choices taken away, so something else is at play when somebody defends nobody having any options with Apple other than Apple, with the argument that “I like it like that”, since logically, having the option of an open system won’t take away the option of the closed system for those who like it.
That said, an alternative explanation for such behaviour is that they’re just self-centred people who are extremely used to a specific environment and couldn’t imagine why anybody would want it to be different, a posture which is often associated with fanboyism of the brand which makes that environment, but not always.
Also another explanation is paid sockpuppet.
Honestly, both here and on Reddit I see more of that blind faith for Google and Microsoft. It’s so weird that the open-source community has a slice of people insisting their giant company is somehow virtuous because it’s slightly less fashionable. Even weirder when they write paragraph’s psychoanalyzing imaginary people.
Reddit doesn’t seem to have a lot of those either, maybe in those apple specific subs, but people prefer android and pc
I kinda agree with your sentiment. If I’m spending $1000+ on a device, I want to truly own it and do whatever I want with it. Unfortunately people have gotten very used to companies like Apple telling them what they can and can’t do, and Apple artificially restricting things (like giving first-party apps special permissions that third-party apps can’t get) so they make more money. It’s not great that this is so widespread now. At least there’s people like Louis Rossman that still care about these things.
If the manufacturer wants to have an “easy mode” where they limit what can be done, like what Apple does today, that’s totally fine. Just don’t force it onto everyone.
Thats the thing. I buy apple products for that sole reason rather than use a GrapheneOS device.
I want it locked down. I want it immutable. I want it matching every other device so im not fingerprinted. I want it backing up to the cloud with end to end encryption while syncing with all my other devices. I want it to airplay to my TV. I want it to be a webcam for my macbook. I want it to hold some health data while keeping it out of prying eyes. I want iMessage to end to end encrypt my text messages to other iMessage users.
Why bother getting an iOS device if thats not what you’re after? Their products are some of the most secure devices, with the longest support life. I save money by holding an iPhone for 6 years, versus 3 years with an Android phone.
Listen, I LOVE grapheneOS. Its just not a complete ecosystem yet.
I want it locked down. I want it immutable. I want it matching every other device so im not fingerprinted.
That’s totally fine… But it should be optional, so that people who want to take full advantage of their device (instead of being restricted) can do so.
I save money by holding an iPhone for 6 years, versus 3 years with an Android phone
There’s no reason you couldn’t hold an Android phone for just as long. Samsung and Google both offer 7 years of security updates.
We can agree to disagree. I don’t think apple devices should be opened up at all. If you want an opened up device, look for a different manufacturer.
That is such an unbelievably idiotic statement.
“I don’t like it so no one else should have it”, is that your argument? You lose absolutely nothing by Apple opening up their platform. You can just continue to use the app store and it will literally be like nothing happened.
I dont want you in my device. I dont want your third parties. I have no desire to make my device more vulnerable just so you can install malware on yours. Any open apple device is a risk to my closed apple device.
Learn to take “no” for an answer. Let me enjoy the product and use it as I intended. I don’t use it for you.
The UK is so fucking nosey.
What’s the disadvantage of being able to open it up? That’s the part I don’t quite understand. It could be disabled by default and require the user to enable an “expert” or “full featured” mode, or something like that.
I think we’re going to eventually reach a point where the European iPhone is far superior to and more innovative than the American one, just because of the fact that you can do a lot more with it. Apple’s software will have to compete on merit, not just win by default because it’s the only choice available on the device.
I’m actually curious as to if it determines EU vs US based on where you buy the phone, based on country for the account, or based on something else entirely.
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The issue with “easy mode” is that it can be disabled. Scammers can and will find ways to trick grandma into disabling easy mode on her devices and then get her to install malware.
As a new user of GrapheneOS, I have yet to see the difference with regular Android except that it’s way more secure.
Graphene doesn’t support any of my banking or MFA apps, at least last time I tried it.
GrapheneOS is how Android should be, but its a solitary experience versus iOS, which harnesses the interplay with other apple devices.
Would grapheneOS work well on a Boox Tab Ultra C?
No. GrapheneOS only supports Google Pixel devices. I do not know if the Boox boot loader can be unlocked to support any custom ROMs.
Its primary utility is shoring up their image as the brand where ‘everything just works’ and op/interop is a thoughtless zero friction process. Compromise that and you lose normie, bigtime. So everyone gets locked in…and you get the walled prison basketball court
You’re getting downvoted but how much would you like to bet that once the walled garden is down/third party apps can be installed; we’ll suddenly see “security related apps” installed by some EU law.
If I sound paranoid there’s already an app on Android that scans the content of your photo library (iPhones have this too but it’s only enabled during parental controls, Androids is stealth-enabled 24/7).
It’s called something android core, you can uninstall it, but it may comeback each update.
