- cross-posted to:
- selfhosted@lemmy.world
- buyeuropean@feddit.uk
- cross-posted to:
- selfhosted@lemmy.world
- buyeuropean@feddit.uk
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Boycott all US based services.
American here, please do this.
All of our companies are run by scumbags taking advantage of useful idiots. We need more options and legitimate competition.
Especially github. I thought all of you were supposed to leave that when microsoft bought it. I never used it but I definitely wouldn’t these days…
This is the way.
Everyone who is censored, everyone who abuses their mod powers; it just creates an opportunity for people to pick up the slack and create better communities.
You only have yourselves to blame, dickhead mods.
So why were they blocked?
One of their main contributors are in US sanctioned regions (Russia) so they can’t access it.
Really! Can’t believe them. Yeah fk microsoft.
Russia is being sanctioned because of its aggressive war against Ukraine.
Microsoft aren’t the bad guys for enforcing international sanctions.
So a person that happens to be iving in a sanctioned country, makes them banned? Bullshit
Yes. That’s how sanctions work.
Part of the intention is to pressure citizens of the country for violating international law so they exert pressure on their governments to stop.
Another part is to remove the use of tooling to support the sanctioned nation.
Russia could stop the war and problem is solved. This isn’t Microsoft being the bad guy, this is Microsoft following international law.
Does that work?
Is it right to tell random people “hey you, it’s your job to break local laws and topple your dictator, we could invade you with actual trained military people but that would be inconvenient for us”?
“Is it right?” Are you kidding? Yes, it’s obviously a better alternative than invading another country and killing people. It’s one of the ways we have learned, as a species, to avoid massive wars and losses of life. If you’re advocating for war as an alternative then you should fuck off and die so you don’t get other people killed in the process.
Is a strictly enforced economic sanction better than an all out regime change invasion/occupation of another sovereign country that costs the lives of millions… we’ll have to get back to you on that one.
No, it’s not right.
People on these forums have been conditioned to see the world through their fairytale-lens and nothing else, though.
A part of oppression is removing people’s ability to fight back. Anyone who holds the average Russian responsible for the war is just playing into the hands of the cabal. It’s like they never heard of Navalny, or any other Russian dissenters.
These people need our help. We shouldn’t victim-blame them and say they need to topple a dictator all on their own.
Same goes for North Korea.
yes, that is the purpose of sanction. to target the lowest rung of society for supporting and promoting the invasion of Ukraine.
I assume most Russian GitHub users use a VPN to avoid it. He has chosen not to in order to make a point.
The real worry is what happens when the US declares sanctions on random allies in their stupid “trade war”…
Once the US starts saying that nobody who trades with the US can deal with Canada, Denmark, Mexico, etc… then it starts to get interesting.
Or if the US fucks up enough for the rest of the world to put a UNO reverse card on the US. If China and the EU do that, the US is fucked within a few months. A “you can’t trade with either of these markets when you trade with the US” would be interesting.
And tbh, from what I gather it’s absolutely a option that is being discussed in diplomatic circles. The main reason it’s not on the table is the huge amount of debts the USA has in China. And the EU will use it as a backup arrow for “further escalation”. Maybe someone should tell Trump who actually delivers the machines for the factories he wants to “bring back”. Hint: It’s not the US.
Yes,you understand how sanctions work.
A person living in a sanctioned country can also no longer buy certain things, travel to certain countries or use certain services. You couldn’t buy a Boeing Plane during WW2 in Germany as well…
And considering that Russia is waging a fucking genocidal war and a hybrid war in Europe and a majority (according to relatively independent statistics) of the population stil supports that shit and has done so for a long time (when they still could have changed course) it’s god damn right these sanctions exist.
BTW: Cuba is being sanctioned by the US for simply nationalising US held companies (Fidel Castro wasn’t that much of a communist in the beginning) since 1960 and basically none gave or gives a rats ass.
a majority (according to relatively independent statistics) of the population stil supports that shit and has done so for a long time
Most Russians are afraid to talk about politics at all. Their responses when questioned are either “I agree with what the government is doing” or “I don’t talk politics.”
We should be strengthening our ties with these oppressed people in order to help them, and help Ukraine as a result. Instead we’re doing the “average intelligence” play of furthering their oppression while funneling money to the MIC.
This war has been a great example of how many useful idiots are around us.
It is bullshit, you’re right.
Sanctions are bullshit economic violence. This is a great example.
Probably better this economic violence than I dunno, the physical violence Russia has exerted on the Ukrainian populace?
Not sure why you’re arguing “better” when we have both.
I don’t think we’re currently doing both of those things to Russia.
K
So what about the organic map users. They should ban the contributor if they need to ban it soo bad.
that’s practically impossible. TOR is alive and well, as if any rando in any country sanctioned by the u.s. cares.
of course they could Great China Firewall the shit out of everything and still fail.
but we’re on the downward spiral, so be gleeful!
Microsoft literally had no choice.
when you’re a corporation with billions of dollars and US politicians cost millions on the high end, you can choose to do whatever you want.
“Microsoft continues to work with Russians despite sanctions due to ongoing war in Ukraine” is probably not a headline they want to see.
Of course not, but can you say that it’s not convenient for them to stiffle foss alternatives to microsoft/apple/google software? many open source projects are at least partially made by russian developers.
It is still an unnecessary risk for them.
true, but let’s not pretend that they were without agency in this decision and in decisions leading up to the current context.
When the big tech guys showed up to the inauguration and sat in the front row to pay tribute it was such a clear example of how capital always yields to authoritarians.
Government and major corporations are the exact same entity in the US.
Exactly. The real issue is the sanctions against Russia. Why those sanctions involve FOSS projects, I’ll never understand.
they were blocked for supporting russia invasion of Ukraine.
Source?
I mean the owners of this “Estonian” company are Russian and Belarussian (company ownership is public record here in Estonia and foreigners can easily start companies), so I wouldn’t be surprised, but I also hate how easily unsubstantiated claims spread on the Internet.
This post is stupid. The whole reason they are blocked is because Russia invaded ukraine, so the US sanctioned them, so Russian developers can’t use Github, not because “microsoft bad” (true but irrelevant in this case) but because Microsoft is legally obligated to block them.
Fuck russia. Honestly this post makes Microsoft, Github and USA look good, and Organic Maps look bad. Organic maps should ban russian developers from contributing.
Honestly after this post I will avoid Organic maps. More like genocide-complicit maps amirite.
I don’t think I want my government deciding who can contribute to my open source project.
When Trump gets into a dick measuring contest with a US ally and sanctions them, POOF foreign contributors are gone. Community management, codebase familiarity, and open PRs be damned. It’ll kill open source projects.
Remember kids, racism and bigotry are always okay if it’s against the right people.
I have nothing against Russian developers. But I do think they should be completely isolated and blocked from the outside world. That’s the whole point of sanctions.
By your logic developers in the US shouldn’t be allowed to contribute to free software either, after all the US is committing genocides and threatening to invade other countries
Well, yeah. That’s literally the point of sanctions.
The point is to protect national interests, not reject free contributions from normal people for non-security critical but useful software projects which is just idiotic
If some country will sanction US that is hosting FOSS, absolutely. That’s not mutually exclusive with this.
yes, we are free to block US developers.
You’re causing more harm than good.
no.
You’ll understand when you’re older.
That makes sense when it harms business being done in that country, people’s opportunity to find jobs and stuff like that.
But blocking people from working for free on open source projects where there’s nothing to be gained is harming progress, not individuals or countries. That’s not what sanctions were made for.
If we would have taken the same line on say biology or mathematics we and the Russian people both would have been worse off.
Are you aware of how much open source work comes from Russians? Russians != Russian govt.
The US supplied 80% of the bombs dropped on Gaza.
Do you believe US civilians should be prohibited from interacting with the rest of the world?
As a US citizen. YES. FFS, the point of sanctions is to compel a change or deter an action. Americans might pay way more attention when the rest of the world puts us in timeout because of the terrible leadership.
Research has shown it has historically had very little to no impact on policy. What it does do is harm the lowest rungs of society.
For example a 2019 report on Trump’s Venezeuala sanctions estimate up to 40,000 people died. Mostly poor people who went without healthcare and medicine because the US froze all of the government’s funds and access to credit.
In my opinion, I’d prefer if we just bombed civilians in the countries we sanction. It’s more honest. It really is a form of low level warfare. Something akin to a medieval raiding party
It is the lowest rung that supports the russia invasion in ukraine. it is not a war crime to use sanction, people don’t die due to sanction they die from failure of their government.
no countries and their friends should be forced to trade with any country they don’t like. every country have the right to sanction or boycott countries they don’t like. Just like I have the right not to buy McDonald’s or not use reddit. Their employees die because I don’t “trade” with them is not my responsibility. This is more honest.
Attacks against civilian targets are war crimes. When you do it through sanctions its OK.
I’m just asking that we are more honest about it. For example instead of putting sanctions on Venezuela we could have just done what Israel is doing to Gaza and gotten similar death toll.
but_what_about_.jpg
Do you believe US civilians should be prohibited from interacting with the rest of the world?
Yes…? Why haven’t other countries sanctioned the US for Gaza genocide? But that’s also not the point at hand.
How the fuck is banning people in certain countries for something they don’t have control over from contributing to small projects like this doing anything but shooting the FOSS ecosystem, which already has a severe shortage of developers, in the foot?
but_what_about_.jpg
whataboutism isn’t some magical phrase that you can utter every time someone brings up hypocrisy
if we’re going to support sanctioning civilians based on their countries breaking international law, then we should not have double standards. otherwise it’s very clear to anyone paying attention that this is a geopolitical issue and not a moral one.
and that’s what this is actually about. the US sanctions on Russia are a geopolitical tool meant to make the Russian re-subjugation of Ukraine more expensive. that’s it. US doesn’t actually care about Ukraine- neither this administration or the last.
to me, that doesn’t justify banning individuals from participating in OSS projects. anybody that wants to contribute should be able to.
They’re too big to fail. At least, they were, but they’re scaling back these days, so they may be sanctioned sooner or later.
I mean, it’s probably in their best interest to avoid us. We are a terrible country.
Fuck russia. Honestly this post makes Microsoft, Github and USA look good, and Organic Maps look bad. Organic maps should ban russian developers from contributing.
I… don’t follow. How does this make the Microsoft, Github, and USA look good? The policy here is absolutely stupid.
Me too. I presume half of the votes on this comment are upvotes because they only read the first half of it.
Can you please explain how you come to such a conclusion of your second half, OP? Like you saw, we really don’t follow.
Russian bots down voting you.
This is how sanctions work. Don’t like it? Get your government to stop invading Ukraine.
Proceeds to use open source tooling with numerous contributions from US-based software developers
Get your government to stop invading Ukraine.
How about we get the american government to stop supplying Israel with bombs they drop on Gaza? Oh, I guess that’s too much effort.
I agree because I’m not a fucking American
Not a Russian bot. Down voted it because GitHub is still a poor choice to host open source on nowadays. It’s like someone saying “It’s stupid that such and such switched to renewable energy instead of fossil fuels because they believe the world is flat. The world is not flat!” It’s really missing the forest for the trees.
Moving off of GitHub is still good, even if you believe their reasoning behind their reasons is incorrect.
Upvoting for the concise summary of what the article is about (thanks!); not for the opinion expressed (which appears to conflate Russian developers with the actions of the Russian government – something I find problematic at best).
Nothing personal against russian FOSS developers. They should be blocked (sanctioned) from contributing until the sanctions are stopped.
We need something like Forgejo, but decentralized and federated, like Lemmy. I don’t want to create a new account for every Forgejo instance, just to be able to report a bug…
Edit: Added “and federated”
Forgejo is in fact working on being decentralized, just like the underlying git structure is. There are some first federation things in there, but the full implementation is still pretty far out.
Git is decentralized itself… You don’t even need forgejo to host your changes
Git is already decentralized, nothing is stopping you from adding multiple remotes to your repo.
The issue tracker is usually the concern
Yeah, that was my point in the first comment… But not only that…
The development with multiple people is decentralized, yes…
But even, if I add 3 remotes to my repo (1 to GitHub, 1 to Forgejo instance A and 1 to Forgejo instance B), guess what happens, if you don’t have an account on each of these… Try pushing code or making a pull request and see how it fails, because you are not authenticated…
How would decentralization work for an issue tracker? The issues have to be stored somewhere.
naturally on the instance that hosts the repo
The issues should be central, but it would be nice for my reputation as a contributor to migrate between instances.
Federation is on their roadmap
You know, git initially was that kind of thing where people would send diff commits on mailing lists. Git is perfectly decentralized already. And there’s no need for federation.
Forgejo is already decentralized too. You could host your own instance right now, if you’d want.
There is this, havent tried
Have you heard of … Git?
:-)
Edit: I was jesting, got interesting responses!
There is no command
git issue create [hostname] [title] [description]and if there was such a command, it’d require authentication on the specific instance to prevent spam.You still need to create an account on each Forgejo instance to report a bug there…
And even, if you commit code or make a pull request… Git might be decentralized (you can develop with your friend independently from each other and merge it), but try to commit code to a GitHub project, GitLab instance or Forgejo instance without having an account there to authenticate yourself… It won’t work.
You mean git inherently requires you to identify yourself?
Huh, shock
I’m not sure what you are trying to say.
My point was from the beginning that I don’t want to create 2 accounts when I report a bug a bug on Forgejo instance 1 and on instance 2.
The suggestion whether I have heard about git does not solve anything about that…
Some one else here mentioned that it’s possible to login with Mastodon on each of the instance, which is the correct direction (allows to report a bug on both instances via an external account). Disadvantage is still: My 2 bug reports are not linked to each other, because there is no shared Forgejo profile, which would actually require something like federation.
git identification has nothing to do with authentication, as any sane person with git experience knows
Gitea has basic federation, I believe
Gitea is where Forgejo forked from.
if you are looking for decentralised vcs you can try radicle, I tried a while ago pretty good. FYI Forgejo supports mastodon login
FYI Forgejo supports mastodon login
That’s interesting. Did not even know, Mastodon supported doing something like this…
There is still a difference: There is no profile in the end. I might create 2 bug reports, bit they won’t be linked to each other.
I think that’s bad (for my personal use) because if I accidentally commit a secret key, how do I claw it back? Basically, how would I claw anything back if it’s on a blockchain aka on thousands/millions of computers already (you can’t).
If you push a secret key you should definitely generate a new one. Way to many bots out there that scan new commits for exactly that reason
Yeah it’s not an insurmountable problem but it has happened to me where I push some commits and I realize “oh lemme remove this code because it leaks a little info about me personally” etc
Yeah please just rotate the secret if that happens. Doesn’t matter what platform it is, this is true of GitHub as well. Secrets that are accidentally published are no longer secret.
Obviously you go and change the key instead?
that’s already a concern. what if someone just cloned your repo? there’s also plenty of people that mirror public repos to their personal forgejo server. forgejo makes it very easy.
the only solution to mitigate such a mistake is to
1) invalidate the token
2) remove the commitIn that order.
I did not mean decentralized hosting of the projects (e.g. your project will be on all instances).
I meant decentralized account usage (e.g. you can use your example.com forgejo account to create an issue on otherexample.org)… Just like Lemmy… I could use my reddthat.com lemmy account to create a post on your instance lemmy.world without having to register there.
You are correct in principle, but Lemmy isn’t on a blockchain. It’s much less permanent.
You can make commits on your system without pushing them to the remote server, and that’s the default behavior.
Wouldn’t it be the other way around, having someone centralized so with one account you can report bugs in any public project?
Do you know how lemmy works?
I do, what I don’t know is how Forgejo works. Doesn’t having to make an account for every project mean it’s already decentraliced, but just doesn’t communicate between instances?
I agree that it’s already kind of decentralized, so I also added the word “federated” to my original post.
Okay, that makes it way more clear ;b
deleted by creator
Rather have it on IPFS or something like OrbitDB, so no one can just lock/delete stuff.
Codeberg is a non-profit that has no fees, but accepts donations. They only allow FOSS projects.
Why would I move away from git if I could just move away from github/lab and keep git?
Are you talking about Fossil ? Fossil’s commands are just like git’s & with the added benefit of having Github’s stuff like wiki & even a forum built into it
That’s a gimmick that doesn’t justify the costs of switching from Git (IMO)
If you want decentralized collaboration features in git without using forge software, you can use mailing lists like the Linux kernel does.
By what standard is GitLab not a “capitalist platform”? It feels even more corporatey than GitHub. From their homepage:
GitLab is the most comprehensive AI-powered DevSecOps Platform.
Yeah but it’s not Microsoft-controlled
Gitlab was created by a Ukrainian, and Microsoft is blocking Organic maps Russian developer due to sanctions due to war on ukraine, which is why what you’re suggesting is pretty cursed
Ok then use CodeBerg or SourceHut. Just anything that’s not GitHub
Anyone have the story behind this? Fuck Microsoft and all that, but Github has historically been pretty good when it comes to not banning people for stupid reasons. Usually, it’s a DMCA thing or a valid security threat.
Recently, there was some controversy about closed source code powering a component of the project (https://github.com/orgs/organicmaps/discussions/9837) but I didn’t keep up with that. Could this ban be related to that?
Some contributer got flagged by US sanctions based on their IP, I think
Welcome to the “free world”.
Russia is free to fuck off out of Ukraine, simple as.
I’m sure there is a lot that the random developer who happened to be born in Russia can do about that.
“Bro, just overthrow your government”. ~ random redditor, probably.
conservative: says a racial slur
Online Platform: bans user
conservative: “sO mUcH fOr tHe tOlEraNt lEfT 😡”
Removed by mod
Eh, you don’t really have a point when people get banned for saying men aren’t women.
Please elaborate? What exactly do you mean?
Removed by mod
Let me give you an analogy.
I was born in the People’s Republic of China. I immigrated to the United States of America when I was not even 10. I grew up in America, I grew attached to the principles of Freedom and Democracy. I went through the proper channels and I obtained Citizenship through the proper way. I am an American.
If someone were to tell me that I’m “not American”, and that because I was “born Chinese, I must be Chinese for the rest of my life”; or, in your phrasing: “A Chinese person cannot become American” you’d be a xenophobe.
Gender is a social contruct. If a man wants to be a woman, or a woman wants to be a man, just let them. Its not denying that they have XX or XY chromosomes, that is what their biology says. But being a “Man” or “Woman” are labels society attributes to those chromosomes, just like the concept of Nationality.
TLDR: Please just let people be whoever they want to be. If you start attacking people’s identity, nobody is gonna wanna talk to you. If you want to spread transphobia, you can go to twitter. Enjoy your nazi bar.
Censored for saying:
“People get banned for saying men aren’t women. You don’t have a point when mods abuse their power. Looks like my comment was censored for even pointing that out.”
Literally just proving me right and the original commenter wrong every time mods abuse their power here.
Person: *makes map app for everyone to use*
Twitter baby: “Racial slurs! Racial slurs!”
That’s weird. Russians and Americans aren’t sanctioned from working on projects together. The sanctions are mostly targeted towards industry and defense. Tucker Carlson works for Russian media and freely travels between the two countries. There has to be something more to this, like the IP came from a known state actor.
They got unbanned, but it eroded trust that it won’t happen again
Ironically the US is more likely to drop the sanctions before Germany, where Codeberg is based.
Edit: They’ve gone self hosted. That makes more sense.
Viva la self-hosting!
Power to the people!
why is Organic Street Maps better than the other ones, that claim to be Open Street Maps derived?
bandwidth is not disposable ya’ll.
Two reasons:
- interface rocks
- maps are downloaded for offline use
I’ve been using OsmAnd for years, and offline maps has always been one of their main things.
OsmAnd is okay, but I really like the interface of Organic Maps better.
Organic Maps is definitely easier to use, especially for new users but OsmAnd is more powerful. I have both and they’re awesome.
that’s enough for me, except are the other ones not good?
downloading maps for offline – you nuts? how does anyone profit from the clicks?
They don’t - but at the same time it saves a ton of money on bandwidth
that is an extra plus feature i always wanted from a “smart” phone - offline maps. i spent money on some of those apps back when it was kicking off and a very few of them were actually helpful, like showing me actual USGS topo maps.
would not have helped me that much for survival on my Hawaiian big island fuckabout, because even the big island is not big enough to get truly lost. i tried!
eventually I went downhill on the volcano towards the ocean for a day or two until cell reception and called my girlfriend and told her I hit my head pretty hard and she should come get me.
still the maps would have been super interesting. also, Red River Gorge, and all the southwestern N. America desert.
I tried a lot of them and i like the interface of Organic the best.
ai driven anti-spam is destroying the internet and deleting legitimate businesses every day. there is usually no customer support, and there are no humans in charge. there is nothing you can do.
Plausibly deniable attacks on political opposition.
This was always going to jappen datahoarders we have to mirror all of github!
You don’t even have to be a datahoarder to help. Run ArchiveTeam warrior on a computer
Easiest way if you’re already someone who needs to use Docker, is to throw this compose file somewhere and run it: Docker Compose file for Warrior
Why did they get removed? I feel like I’m missing a whole backstory here.
Seemingly one of the contributors has visited a disputed region and logged into GitHub from there. By law (export controls) Microsoft must not provide service to that place. So some automatism flagged the account and also the organic maps repo. So far so normal. But either Microsoft dragged it’s feet in communicating and resolving the issue or the organic maps team was not doing their part in the process. Doesn’t matter, the outcome is still worth it.
What are we, North Korea? We can’t accept information from certain countries? I can understand being wary of state-sponsored information terrorism, but “Hey, here’s a Cuban road? A good place for a guava and cheese pastry?”
Come on. This was really the trigger?
By law (export controls) Microsoft must not provide service to that place. So some automatism flagged the account and also the organic maps repo. So far so normal.
not normal at all! don’t serve the website. that is normal. but ban anyone logging in seemingly from there, on sight? that’s literally “shoot first, ask later” in tech! totally abnormal, if this is the reason
Don’t shoot the messenger. The regulations are pretty draconic. I have to ensure the training for that every year.
Apparently, one of the contributors did a push while visiting Cuba and since Cuba in sanctioned by US they just blocked the entire repo. Insane.
Source?
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43492578
Other places mentioned ‘U.S. sanctioned region’.
Probably.
No self-respecting DEV would update README.md…
They’re a direct competitor to one of microsoft’s products, and a better one at that.
Sucks for Organic Maps but that’s the FAANG.
I love organic maps, sometimes I practice navigation by turning location off and using a compass with the downloaded map on my phone.
Nice! It even supports the same RSS feed format. For anyone who also wants FOSS releases injected straight into their veins https://git.omaps.dev/organicmaps/organicmaps/releases.atom
What is really needed is a fediverse for git repos
