Berlin’s immigration authorities are moving to deport four young foreign residents on allegations related to participation in protests against Israel’s war on Gaza, an unprecedented move that raises serious concerns over civil liberties in Germany.
The deportation orders, issued under German migration law, were made amid political pressure and over internal objections from the head of the state of Berlin’s immigration agency.
The internal strife arose because three of those targeted for deportation are citizens of European Union member states who normally enjoy freedom of movement between E.U. countries. None of the four has been convicted of any crimes.
“What we’re seeing here is straight out of the far right’s playbook,” said Alexander Gorski, a lawyer representing two of the protesters. “You can see it in the U.S. and Germany, too: Political dissent is silenced by targeting the migration status of protesters.”
International law: Conducting and Support of Genocide is Illegal.
U.S./Germany law: Protesting Genocide is Illegal.
The challenge lies in the fact that criticism of Israel is often intertwined with accusations of anti-Semitism. Germany finds itself in a delicate position: on one hand, it has pledged unwavering support to the state of Israel; on the other hand, it must uphold the right to dissent and allow protests against Israeli policies.
It’s not delicate at all.
If you don’t stick to your values when they’re being tested, they’re not values: they’re hobbies.
—Jon Stewart
I don’t understand how the quote applies to the situation described. Germany has a deep responsibility to support Israel because of its history with the Holocaust. However, it also believes in free speech and the right to protest. The challenge is balancing these two—supporting Israel while allowing criticism of its policies without crossing into anti-Semitism.
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No, Germany feels a responsibility to help Jews as reparations for the holocaust. Not a blank check to the rightwing Israeli government or giving them a pass when they violate international law. And certainly not violating Germany’s free speech laws by arresting nonviolent protestors condemning a foreign government for their war crimes. There’s no challenge here unless you think every protestor is an anti-Semite.
Here’s the thing: in your view of the world, everything appears simple—everything is either black or white. Protesters are good; cops are bad. Palestine is good; Jews are bad. In reality, the world is far more nuanced.
Not at all what I believe but you’re looking for some kind of excuse to dismiss what I’m saying. I find that it’s always the excuse by Zionists on this sub when an atrocity is pointed out that they support, “it’s complicated,” as if that is a reason to keep up with the injustice. In this case, no it’s not complicated. Germany is violating their free speech laws and undermining their commitment to international law because they are supporting an atrocity. There’s actually easy solutions here with a sensible middle ground, and of course Germany isn’t doing it.
Peace.
Choosing between an incredibly bad lie to commit genocide and not committing genocide must be a hard choice for Germany, knowing their history and regret for their previous genocide
No wait, Germany is supporting genocide again.
“Germany has pledged unwavering support to a genocidal colonial apartheid” really is not the own Germans think it is.
The world is far too nuanced to be categorized as merely good or evil, as you suggest. Following the atrocities of the Holocaust during World War II, Germany has assumed a profound moral and political obligation to safeguard and support the state of Israel, a commitment that remains a cornerstone of its foreign policy.
Yes, Germany has expressed strong support for Israel during the ongoing conflict, primarily through diplomatic efforts and humanitarian aid to Gaza.
Nuance for genocide what is next nuance for Adolf Hitler? “Well he did kill all those Jews but you have to remember he was denied his art education!”
Here is a good rule to live by:
Genocide bad.
Nobody has ever suggested that genocide is a good thing; that is an argument you introduced yourself. Furthermore, you alleged that Germany supports genocide without elaborating on how this claim is substantiated.
Germany Turns to U.S. Playbook: Deportations Target Gaza War Protesters (Literally the post you are in)
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Why should anyone give a fuck about that?
If those EU citizens take it to EU court they’d probably win very easily. Can’t just take away freedom of movement, one of the tenets of the Union, without any due process. Seriously fuck the German politicians who pressured for this. Guess fascism is making a return, didn’t even need the AfD for that.
Albert Einstein is 100% correct.
Israel applying pressure on Germany.
Israel the kings of the world?
Nah if the USA gets blamed (deserved) Germany gets fucking blamed (also deserved as the original fucking Nazis they shouldn’t have been forgiven, either).
If you search for it, its only reported by two outlets. There is not a single German newspaper reporting this, including left wing or Berlin regional ones. Searching for the names in the articles returns no results linked to Berlin or Free Palestine at all. The name of the public official also turns up nothing.
Could be misinformation.
Already addressed this elsewhere so pasting the same comment; It is possible the American student contacted TheIntercept first. If TheIntercept is the first source then German media will likely pick up the story soon.
I also searched for the lawyer
“What we’re seeing here is straight out of the far right’s playbook,” said Alexander Gorski, a lawyer representing two of the protesters. “You can see it in the U.S. and Germany, too: Political dissent is silenced by targeting the migration status of protesters.”
Alexander Gorski is the same person who overturned Ghassan Abu-Sittah’s ban from Germany which does lend a lot of credibility unless TheIntercept is straight up making up quotes from people out of thin air.
The International Centre of Justice for Palestinians (ICJP) announced in a social media post on Tuesday that it, along with lawyer Alexander Gorski and the European Legal Support Centre, had successfully challenged the travel ban imposed on Abu Sitta by Germany.
Right… because Germany could never, ever do something like this.
Germany Is Threatening to Deport Palestinian Refugees for Their Activism
Germany’s unprecedented crackdown on pro-Palestinian speech
EDIT: You were the one spewing misinformation, it has been reported by dozens of journal outlets as of now.
The financial times and the Irish times have since picked it up.
Thanks
So will you redact now that it "could be misinformation“ or are you just gonna leave it there as alternative facts, Fox News style?
Or they can leave it alone and people with brains can realize that OP is older than the posts stating that the story is picked up by other outlets now.
God forbid The Intercept gets a scoop.
I was also sceptical but it seems to be generally true, however the details of it are way more complicated. Read for yourself if you know German or use a translator, one of the biggest Berlin newspapers picked it up and added details : https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/nach-beteiligung-an-palastina-protesten-in-berlin-drei-eu-burgern-und-einem-studenten-aus-den-usa-droht-ausweisung-13468543.html
That’s fair, but then again the Intercept is a pretty reputable site and the story seems legit.
At this point it’s equally likely that the mainstream media just don’t care because of their reason of state. Idk how their reporting is on other Palestine related content but in my country it’s mostly silence, I learn about what’s happening mostly from The Guardian and Al Jazeera because most media outlets simply don’t give a fuck about Palestinian life.
Yeah, no. There are many left wing German newspapers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXkS0ykfvvI
Absolutely not true. Listen to this interview if you wanna get an accurate picture (unfortunately in German but there should be AI generated subtitles). The situation is grim.
The reality is that the news are probably true, and it’s quite common that people will either gaslight or simply not give a fuck. Germany went absolutely fascist, it’s a terrible situation. Even “left-wing” newspapers like TAZ aren’t very left wing when it comes to Palestinians. Your typical liberal German academic will deny this but who’s even asking them anymore?
Dieses Video ist alles andere als ein akkurates Bild.
Says who?
Da muss man nur ein paar Minuten zuhören um zu merken, dass es eine reine Pro-Hamas Propagadasendung ist.
Yes everything is Hamas, obviously. What a load of BS. Give me one example of a “pro-Hamas” statement and in English please so that everyone can get an idea of your agenda. You Zionists are monsters, Zionism is irredeemable and history won’t fare well of people like you.
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Just yesterday people were cheering up germany government for rearming for war and everyone arguing against it was being downvoted.
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well known russia supporter
Never supported the russian government in any of the comments i ever made. You sound brainwashed on propaganda.
Harry, yer a tankie now.
Doesn’t seem very pro Russia to me
Everything anti-genocide is apparently pro-Russia… I’ve been accused of being a tanky, and a Russian shill; and well, I’m most certainly neither of them.
I’m sure i’ve even commented before that they should kill putin but according to the propaganda you must have it tattoed on your body or it doesn’t count and you are still a russian troll.
Look further, he comments a lot. He tries more and more to conceal his views
Also had a look at their comment history, does not look very damning to me. Can you link a comment you are referring to?
He retroactively went a day back in time to “conceal his views” after you called him a Russian shill?
“I think re-arming doesn’t do anything but spend money that could be better spent on helping people.”
“Shut up, this is exactly what we need right now!”
“So you don’t care about helping people?”
“That’s a strawman!”
Wow it looks like we were right again, but still downvoted and removed. Odd how that always works.
I was there. It was weird.
Fash support fash. Germany has been supporting genocide for a long time.
It’s really amazing how liberals will completely accept genocide up until the very second that it affects them.
It is heart breaking to see Germany begin to give in to fascism again. What happened to “never again!” ???
It’s because: “this time it’s different”
It was a lie.
And in a decade or so, before you know it, Deutschland will be invading Poland again.
Nah, Putin already has marked the map with Trump’s sharpie.
My prediction, built on assuming we’re in the stupidest timeline, is that Germany will try to help the Palestinians…by carving a new homeland for them out of Poland.
People started to claim that the people did the thing that was supposed to never happen again did them with no moral self-justifications. This lead to the same evil people getting away with evil yet again if they pull out a (usually fabricated) crime statistics, etc.
Look, if we don’t tolerate at least a little genocide of somebody else, then we’re basically throwing our votes away. /s
Oh really? How? What genocide?
Uh… The one in Gaza?
Germany, no…
he tried to warn us
I fucking hate the timeline we’re living in
Fucking disgusting.
I have some notes on that. 3 of the 4 are EU citizens, that makes deportations highly complicated. I also can’t find another source,
and the intercept has a history of pushing some shady things.Something feels off.They are naming the people being deported, maybe one of our German friends can dig up some German articles with their names?
The four people slated for deportation, Cooper Longbottom, Kasia Wlaszczyk, Shane O’Brien, and Roberta Murray, are citizens of, respectively, the U.S., Poland, and in the latter two cases Ireland.
I searched for German articles about this, but found none. However, the three parties expected to form the next government –the SPD, the CDU and its Bavarian sibling, the CSU– are considering to weaponize migration background against “sponsors of terror, antisemites and extremists”, which could be construed to include some peaceful critics of the Israeli government and military and their actions and plans.
Thanks. It is possible the American student contacted TheIntercept first. If TheIntercept is the first source then German media will likely pick up the story soon.
I also searched for the lawyer
“What we’re seeing here is straight out of the far right’s playbook,” said Alexander Gorski, a lawyer representing two of the protesters. “You can see it in the U.S. and Germany, too: Political dissent is silenced by targeting the migration status of protesters.”
Apparently Alexander Gorski is the same person who overturned Ghassan Abu-Sittah’s ban from Germany which does lend a lot of credibility unless TheIntercept is straight up making up quotes from people out of thin air.
The International Centre of Justice for Palestinians (ICJP) announced in a social media post on Tuesday that it, along with lawyer Alexander Gorski and the European Legal Support Centre, had successfully challenged the travel ban imposed on Abu Sitta by Germany.
What shady stuff have they published in the past? I’ve generally found their coverage good and they often cover stories like this that other mainstream sources won’t.
You are right, I thought that Greenwald was still involved, but left in 2020. i did not like his downplaying of the trump Putin friendship
Yeah nothing in the taz - Germanys biggest left wing newspaper. Nothing in the Zeit and nothing in Tagespiegel (Berlin Newspaper) either.
Hey, you didn’t happen to search this again today did you? Just curious, thank you!
Hi, a bunch of other newspapers have now reported this. They have independently verified it, including with the courts. Ex: https://www.tagesspiegel.de/berlin/nach-beteiligung-an-palastina-protesten-in-berlin-drei-eu-burgern-und-einem-studenten-aus-den-usa-droht-ausweisung-13468543.html
Laut der Gerichtssprecherin hat das LEA den drei EU-Bürgern attestiert, sie seien eine „gegenwärtige Gefahr für die öffentliche Sicherheit und Ordnung“. Gestützt werde dies auf mehrere Strafverfahren mit Bezug zum Nahostkonflikt.
Dabei gehe es um Widerstand gegen Vollzugsbeamte nach Auflösung von Demonstrationen, Beleidigung, besonders schwerer Landfriedensbruch und die Verwendung von Kennzeichen terroristischer Organisationen, darunter auch der Spruch „From the River to the Sea“. Alle Personen seien, so der Vorwurf der Ausländerbehörde, Mitglieder einer gewaltbereiten Gruppe der propalästinensischen Szene, sagte die Gerichtssprecherin.
Thank you for the follow up!!!
Then it must be fake news and the >1000 people that got killed since the end of the ceasefire and the deliberate mass starvation of the people in Gaza who have to survive on a bowl of rice per day, all that isn’t happening right?
Because I don’t see any news about that at all by our oh so holy liberal left wing academic journalists. The bubble you live in is pathetic, don’t make it sound like all of us in Germany are as bigoted and blind to the amount of suffering our political and media elites are causing to the Palestinians through constant dehumanization and outright support of the genocide against them. I hate to live in the same country as people like you.
Heart. You’ve got it. It’s in the right place.
If I may offer my perspective-
My natural response here is “wow thank you for doing the legwork, maybe a German article will be posted later tonight, let’s check back“
Thanks! Tough to do it sometimes but I don’t want this to become like Reddit or leave the narrative to people who dismiss anything they don’t like to hear as fake news. It’s enough that Trump made this a thing, I don’t think we need it here, especially in this case where imo there was never any evidence for this being fake news and now there’s indeed more articles.
I am sorry you cannot see the difference between an article that has not been corroborated and people claiming there is no genocide in Gaza.
although this article is republished from the Intercept, here’s some info about the author:
Hanno Hauenstein is a Berlin-based independent journalist and author. His work has appeared in publications including The Guardian, The Intercept, and Berliner Zeitung.
The financial times and the Irish times have since picked it up.
Hmm.
Fuck germany.
Germany likes to pretend they’re super liberal and that they have no fascist citizens. They’ve gone completely to the other side of history where they now pretend like they’re above it all. I’m sick of people pretending like Germany is some sort of promised land
looks like German libs are doing the Kamala speedrun.
it’s not a coincidence they went after trans immigrants first, they know it’s easy to use us as guinea pigs for setting legal precedent.
The propaganda is getting lazy, this doesn’t even make sense.
Idk, maybe it is just feels-based. If we keep repeating over and over in various ways how bad and anti-Palestinian Kamala Harris was while she was in charge of the country and setting our Gaza policy, people will absorb it by pure groupthink, and won’t notice that the number of people deported or disappeared for being Gaza protestors has gone up infinity percent since the other person won the election and in fact this exact type of issue was a big part of why it was super important for him not to win.
Their argument is liberals capitulating to the right in order to “win over voters” which will never vote for them. Not an exact 1 to 1 comparison.
Kamala did support the brutal crackdown on student protesters. But, she did indeed not deport them. That said, ICE under Biden and Kamala was already heavily in violation of human rights and continuing the Trump 2016 agenda. Deportation of wrongthink is but the next logical step of the ratchet effect.
Yeah it’s “weird” how up in arms liberals were when Trump opened the concentration camps but how quiet they were when Biden neglected to close them so he could use them even more than Trump did
Ah yes, those are some perfectly standard talking points.
I think I will do up a FAQ for the disinformation community or something, it is getting tiring repeatedly typing the same responses. But I do appreciate the extra effort to at least put together something which has some semblance of plausibility instead of just seeing “Gaza” and reaching for the “Kamala Harris” button without bothering to make it make sense or relate in literally any way at all. Big improvement. Good stuff.
Their comparison is to Liberals because “Liberals” are currently running Germany instead of the “far right”. Whatever these terms even mean anymore, seeing they both love Fascism.
If the AfD was in charge the comparison would have been to Trump.
German Liberals also appear to also do their very best to hand an easy win to the far right next election by blaming immigrants and protesters for everything instead of addressing any economic issues. Thus making the entire populace vote more right similar to how Liz Kamaley handed the win to Trump.
Berlin is run by right-wing conservatives, not liberals. The federal government lacks authority for states deciding whom to deport.
The map said Berlin was “left” in the last German elections. Is this not representative?
Those are the results from the 2024 European Parliament Election.
Here are the results of the more relevant 2023 State Parliament Election:
The state government is right-wing conservatives with centrist-at-best “social” democrats. Both are very supportive of police cracking down on people who wouldn’t have voted for them anyways.
Berlin currently has a black-red government. I have no idea what your map there is showing. State elections wouldn’t show a federal map and the last federal elections don’t match, compare e.g. SH’s districts (northernmost state).
Berlin is kinda notorious for being a police state, and of the “IDGAF” nature, not “stickler for law” one.
I appreciate it as well. I don’t like people dismissing the wrong Biden and Kamala have done. However, the people constantly saying it doesn’t matter if you vote for Kamala or Trump because they’re both fascist is wrong and annoying.
IndustryStandard literally didn’t say that.
IndustryStandard criticizing Kamala but mentioning Kamala wouldn’t do all the same things as Trump. I like how they mentioned it was the a stepping stone for Trump’s deportations but I was not referring to that specifically.
Kamala did support the brutal crackdown on student protesters. But, she did indeed not deport them. That said, ICE under Biden and Kamala was already heavily in violation of human rights and continuing the Trump 2016 agenda. Deportation of wrongthink is but the next logical step of the ratchet effect.
PhilipTheBucket liking that that IndustryStandard’s post was nuanced and not as simple as “Kamala bad”.
I think I will do up a FAQ for the disinformation community or something, it is getting tiring repeatedly typing the same responses. But I do appreciate the extra effort to at least put together something which has some semblance of plausibility instead of just seeing “Gaza” and reaching for the “Kamala Harris” button without bothering to make it make sense or relate in literally any way at all. Big improvement. Good stuff.
I was trying to say I liked the nuanced discussion, and was expanding on it with my own experiences.
PhilipTheBucket liking that that IndustryStandard’s post was nuanced and not as simple as “Kamala bad”.
Uh… I’m pretty sure you misunderstood that. PhilipTheBucket was speaking ironically; they were saying that IndustryStandard’s response is still disinformation, just higher quality disinformation that’s meant to look vaguely plausible. This is not a nuanced discussion; it’s PhilipTheBucket dismissing IndustryStandard’s response as disinformation and propaganda meant to make America’s Great Saviors look bad.
I’m pretty sure Kamala, being a private citizen and not the president, has nothing to do with the deportations taking place in America right now.
I’d check who the current president is and assign blame to him.sure, if you wanna do a dog-shit ahistorical analysis of what lead to this, you could place the blame entirely on Trump.
do you seriously expect us to ignore the direct parallel between the Democrats adopting fascist rhetoric and deportations and the social Democrats in Germany adopting AfD propaganda in their program?
you either didn’t pay attention when she threw us under the bus to win the fascist electorate or You actively cheered her on as she was doing it. same for her being a rabid Zionist.
Agreed. The Democrats started this Mcarthyist witchhunt about Hamas supporting students and anti Zionism is anti semitism baloney. Thanks to them the Republicans were gifted with a ready made clampdown on civil rights.
Also, seems like you haven’t heard of Rufo and similar Republican propagandists
Pretty sure most of those university board members are conservative
nah you right
Are you okay?
As a trans person in this timeline obviously they’re not okay, are you doing anything to make the situation better for them in any possible way? If not better lose the snarkiness
Ah sorry, I didn’t realize being trans gives you a free pass for spreading political propaganda but I know better now.
Actually I think it’s kind of patronizing to say that trans people just can’t help themselves from posting shit like that because of their circumstances.
Trans people probably can’t help themselves from responding to Democrat apologia when most of the things Trump is doing were first legitimized by Democrats either in speech or action.
Okay buddy, American far left accelerationists working hand in hand with the alt right to dismantle democracy will never not be funny from an outside perspective.
You’re beginning to see the regime you brought on but instead of owning up to it, you blame it on milquetoast technocrats like Kamala Harris lmao.
Except that they’re making perfect sense and you’re simply calling it political propaganda because it doesn’t fit into your world view. There’s nothing to patronize because it’s a perfectly sane take, you’re the one trying to gaslight us here.
Alright buddy, good luck in life!
checks who the current president is
How could the democrats let this happen?!?
Who helped the recent spending bill pass again?
Are deportations part of the spending bill or are you moving the goal post?
Fine you want deportation specific? Democrats rubber stamped the Laken Riley act, fuck you.
My point was Democrats are literally working lockstep with Republicans and you’re too much a blue MAGAt to care.
I love your passion, but I’m just a dude thousands of miles away, eating popcorn and laughing in your general direction.
The Kamala speedrun? Did she deport thousands of people to El Salvador?
she’s adopted a violent transphobic, anti-Palestinian campaign to win over MAGA voters. that’s what the SPD is doing to Arabs, Muslims and immigrants by courting the AfD.
