• @LittleLordLimerick@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          71 year ago

          When people say “anti-woke”, they actually mean that they are anti-doing anything about the awareness of systemic inequality that wokeness indicates. By definition, someone who is against change/progress is a conservative, so when someone says they are anti-woke, they are by definition expressing a conservative stance. That is, wanting to do something about systemic inequality is synonymous with having a progressive stance on systemic inequality.

          Being a tankie, on the other hand, is not synonymous with being a comunist. Tankies are just one form of communist (militant).

          • brain_in_a_box [he/him]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            421 year ago

            And when people say they are “anti-tankie”, they actually mean that they are anti doing anything about the awareness of systematic inequality that tankie indicates. By definition, someone who is against change/progress is a conservative, so when someone says they are anti-tankie, they are by definition expressing a conservative stance. That is, wanting to do something about systemic inequality is synonymous with having a progressive stance on systemic inequality.

            Being a tankie, on the other hand, is not synonymous with being a comunist. Tankies are just one form of communist (militant).

            Other way around: communists are just one form of tankies, the word is also used to refer to anarchists and some soc-dems.

            • @LittleLordLimerick@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              51 year ago

              You’re spun around, flipped upside-down, and confused as can be.

              Tankie is a term that specifically refers to one particular kind of communism; namely, the kind that supports authoritarian regimes that try to impose communism through the use of force to repress dissent.

              You can be a communist and not be a tankie. You cannot be against progress and be a progressive.

              • brain_in_a_box [he/him]
                link
                fedilink
                English
                321 year ago

                You’re spun around, flipped upside-down, and confused as can be.

                Very compelling, but have you considered

                spoiler

                PIGPOOPBALLS

                Tankie is a term that specifically refers to one particular kind of communism

                No, it’s used to refer a wide, vague blob of vibes, just like the word woke. The people who use it can can do use it to refer to all kinds of communists, most anarchists, and anything to the left of Elizabeth Warren in general.

                that try to impose communism through the use of force.

                As opposed to the kind of communism where you ask nicely for revolution? Have you actually read any Marx? I guarantee he was not a pacifist.

                You can be a communist and not be a tankie

                By your own definition you cannot, let alone by a definition of tankie that describes how libs actually use it.

                • @LittleLordLimerick@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  41 year ago

                  As opposed to the kind of communism where you ask nicely for revolution? Have you actually read any Marx? I guarantee he was not a pacifist.

                  You deliberately misquoted me by cutting off the end of that sentence so you could have a nice soft strawman to swing at. The full sentence said

                  that try to impose communism through the use of force to repress dissent.

                  Forceful revolution by the workers against the capitalist class is a completely different matter from forceful repression of dissent by the state against students and professors.

                  • ElHexo [comrade/them]
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    171 year ago

                    Forceful revolution by the workers against the capitalist class is a completely different matter from forceful repression of dissent by the state against students and professors.

                    So you’re pro tanks against capitalists?

              • AcidSmiley [she/her]
                link
                fedilink
                English
                271 year ago

                Tankie is a term that specifically refers to one particular kind of communism

                Nope, tankie originally referred specifically to British labor party members supporting the USSR’s actions against the coup in Hungary, and today is used to refer to any anti-imperialist leftist, regardless of tendency. Of course all of you claim otherwise, but these claims are provably empty, as nobody who uses the term today, including you in this thread, bothers to check for the actual political views of the people you call tankie, you see something that may go against the state department narratives that are spoonfed to you by V*ush and the reddit front page or whoever else has done this pseudo-leftist brainworming to you and you start yelling tankie at the top of your liberal, western-chauvinist lungs. A good number of the people posting on hexbear are anarchists and DemSocs, but you will label all of them tankie as long as they critically support China or question the narrative on the new forever war in Ukraine, which to you equals “thinking today’s Russia is true communism” and similar nonsense. Your understanding of politics is damaged beyond repair by being socialized as a smartass debatelord who has become entirely incapable of forming judgements not based on learned reflex and of engaging in good faith conversations. I would pity you if people like you wouldn’t be such a disaster for the Western left and for anybody in the Global South suffering from the continued imperialism you help enable by fighting the last genuine critics of genocidal US policies that are left in the West. You CIA tool, you psyop casualty, you neocon bootlicker.

                • @LittleLordLimerick@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  51 year ago

                  I don’t call someone a tankie based on where they post, but in what they post. If you don’t want to be called a tankie, then don’t post tankie shit.

                  • AcidSmiley [she/her]
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    151 year ago

                    If showing solidarity with victims of Amerikan imperialism makes me a tankie, i’ll prefer that over being a white supremacist warmonger who justifies the bombing of brown people in “shithole countries” like literally everybody who calls people a tankie online.

              • ElHexo [comrade/them]
                link
                fedilink
                English
                241 year ago

                impose communism through the use of force to repress dissent.

                All societies impose force to repress dissent (other than anarchist communes I guess, where force is mediated by norms)

                • @ghost_of_faso2@lemmygrad.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  151 year ago

                  even anarchist communes have use of force, those moltov cocktails being thrown at police officers arent non-violent and even recent projects like CHAZ/CHOP had para-police forces setup within them to hold order togther

        • sooper_dooper_roofer [none/use name]
          link
          fedilink
          English
          161 year ago

          I used to think that Marx was overrated because I never needed to read him but holy shit it’s clear that 95% of the populace cannot form coherent ideologies without being taught them

        • Dr. Jenkem
          link
          fedilink
          English
          51 year ago

          Tankie usually refers to Marxism-Leninism (as well the ideologies that derived from it such as Maoism). But there are communist ideologies that don’t derive from ML such as Orthodox Marxism, trotskyism, libertarian Marxism, bulshevism, etc.

          • @ghost_of_faso2@lemmygrad.ml
            link
            fedilink
            281 year ago

            Tankie usually refers to Marxism-Leninism

            no it usually refers to whatever the fuck the person posting it seems to think it is, there is not a coherent label for it.

            Orthodox Marxism, trotskyism, libertarian Marxism, bulshevism, etc.

            Oh cool, which societies use those?

            • Dr. Jenkem
              link
              fedilink
              English
              31 year ago

              no it usually refers to whatever the fuck the person posting it seems to think it is, there is not a coherent label for it.

              Why are you letting libs define everything? You and I both know they’re dumbasses and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

              Oh cool, which societies use those?

              Anyone could have said the same to Marx about communism at any point in his life, as he died before the October revolution.

              • @ghost_of_faso2@lemmygrad.ml
                link
                fedilink
                161 year ago

                Anyone could have said the same to Marx about communism at any point in his life, as he died before the October revolution.

                the difference is you named a bunch of dead ideologies that will never be revived, ML is literally the only form of marxism still flourishing

              • o_d [he/him]
                link
                fedilink
                101 year ago

                Why are you letting libs define everything? You and I both know they’re dumbasses and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

                Yeah I’m sure everyone in the lemmyverse is using the word tankie to refer to those of us who support the 1956 Soviet intervention in Hungary /s

          • geikei [none/use name]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            131 year ago

            How would Trotskyism be any less “authoritarian” Than marxism leninism ? Also almost every claims on some level to be “orthodox marxist”, lenin most of all and MLs as well

        • @LittleLordLimerick@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          41 year ago

          Telling someone to read Marx to understand modern day socialism is like telling someone to read Newton to understand modern day physics tbh.

          • @ghost_of_faso2@lemmygrad.ml
            link
            fedilink
            22
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Newton to understand modern day physics

            I mean yeah, if you want to understand the devolopment of physics you are required to understand the foundations it was built on, this is basic study.

            Its like telling someone they should read the bible if they want to be christian, or telling someone they should read the instruction manual if they want to actually know what the terms they are using mean.

            • @LittleLordLimerick@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              31 year ago

              Yeah, you should read Marx if you want to understand the historical development of socialist ideas, but if that’s where your reading ends, then your ideas are stuck in the past.

              Socialism isn’ta religious dogma that is inflexible and unchanging. It’s an intellectual idea that grows and becomes more refined over time.

          • axont [she/her, comrade/them]
            link
            fedilink
            English
            18
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            Yeah, you’re right. It’s also important to read Lenin’s works on imperialism to understand modern socialism. It’s important to study Mao as well.

        • @LittleLordLimerick@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          91 year ago

          Why does AES always seems to end up with forced labor camps? I don’t remember forced labor camps being a central part of socialist ideology…

          A country can call itself socialist, that doesn’t make it so.

              • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
                link
                fedilink
                English
                25
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                Sure you can have an opinion, but if its about something you know nothing about, and have not investigated then it is worthless. Not just to other people, but to yourself as well

              • Awoo [she/her]
                link
                fedilink
                English
                22
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                What have you actually done to help socialism then?

                Are you a union organiser? Are you in a union? Which one? What party are you in? What projects do you support? What are you actually doing as a socialist? Other than voting for a liberal party every few years I mean.

                • @LittleLordLimerick@lemm.ee
                  link
                  fedilink
                  21 year ago

                  My partner is a teacher and is in a union. We are both active in organizing and supporting. There are no unions for the industry I work in, so I work with hers.

                  • Awoo [she/her]
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    22
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    Then you should know better than this bullshit, because you would be working with several of us. There is definitely not a teaching union that is not filled with MLs, education in particular has the highest number of us.

                  • @ghost_of_faso2@lemmygrad.ml
                    link
                    fedilink
                    151 year ago

                    ]

                    if your political activism starts and ends with being in a union you are useless to any socialist project, you even elevate yourself above others because of your union membership; liberal complancy, please boss uwu be nice and give us a raise.

              • person above wasnt claiming to be the sole arbiters, dumb comment

                il take the largest communist projects in the world, the word of millions + people who study marxism and practice it in reality everyday over a liberal who would struggle to define the word ‘socialism’ and whos political education starts and ends with there high school history class + 10 years spent on /r/politics