• @LittleLordLimerick@lemm.ee
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        71 year ago

        When people say “anti-woke”, they actually mean that they are anti-doing anything about the awareness of systemic inequality that wokeness indicates. By definition, someone who is against change/progress is a conservative, so when someone says they are anti-woke, they are by definition expressing a conservative stance. That is, wanting to do something about systemic inequality is synonymous with having a progressive stance on systemic inequality.

        Being a tankie, on the other hand, is not synonymous with being a comunist. Tankies are just one form of communist (militant).

        • brain_in_a_box [he/him]
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          421 year ago

          And when people say they are “anti-tankie”, they actually mean that they are anti doing anything about the awareness of systematic inequality that tankie indicates. By definition, someone who is against change/progress is a conservative, so when someone says they are anti-tankie, they are by definition expressing a conservative stance. That is, wanting to do something about systemic inequality is synonymous with having a progressive stance on systemic inequality.

          Being a tankie, on the other hand, is not synonymous with being a comunist. Tankies are just one form of communist (militant).

          Other way around: communists are just one form of tankies, the word is also used to refer to anarchists and some soc-dems.

          • @LittleLordLimerick@lemm.ee
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            51 year ago

            You’re spun around, flipped upside-down, and confused as can be.

            Tankie is a term that specifically refers to one particular kind of communism; namely, the kind that supports authoritarian regimes that try to impose communism through the use of force to repress dissent.

            You can be a communist and not be a tankie. You cannot be against progress and be a progressive.

            • brain_in_a_box [he/him]
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              321 year ago

              You’re spun around, flipped upside-down, and confused as can be.

              Very compelling, but have you considered

              spoiler

              PIGPOOPBALLS

              Tankie is a term that specifically refers to one particular kind of communism

              No, it’s used to refer a wide, vague blob of vibes, just like the word woke. The people who use it can can do use it to refer to all kinds of communists, most anarchists, and anything to the left of Elizabeth Warren in general.

              that try to impose communism through the use of force.

              As opposed to the kind of communism where you ask nicely for revolution? Have you actually read any Marx? I guarantee he was not a pacifist.

              You can be a communist and not be a tankie

              By your own definition you cannot, let alone by a definition of tankie that describes how libs actually use it.

              • @LittleLordLimerick@lemm.ee
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                41 year ago

                As opposed to the kind of communism where you ask nicely for revolution? Have you actually read any Marx? I guarantee he was not a pacifist.

                You deliberately misquoted me by cutting off the end of that sentence so you could have a nice soft strawman to swing at. The full sentence said

                that try to impose communism through the use of force to repress dissent.

                Forceful revolution by the workers against the capitalist class is a completely different matter from forceful repression of dissent by the state against students and professors.

            • AcidSmiley [she/her]
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              271 year ago

              Tankie is a term that specifically refers to one particular kind of communism

              Nope, tankie originally referred specifically to British labor party members supporting the USSR’s actions against the coup in Hungary, and today is used to refer to any anti-imperialist leftist, regardless of tendency. Of course all of you claim otherwise, but these claims are provably empty, as nobody who uses the term today, including you in this thread, bothers to check for the actual political views of the people you call tankie, you see something that may go against the state department narratives that are spoonfed to you by V*ush and the reddit front page or whoever else has done this pseudo-leftist brainworming to you and you start yelling tankie at the top of your liberal, western-chauvinist lungs. A good number of the people posting on hexbear are anarchists and DemSocs, but you will label all of them tankie as long as they critically support China or question the narrative on the new forever war in Ukraine, which to you equals “thinking today’s Russia is true communism” and similar nonsense. Your understanding of politics is damaged beyond repair by being socialized as a smartass debatelord who has become entirely incapable of forming judgements not based on learned reflex and of engaging in good faith conversations. I would pity you if people like you wouldn’t be such a disaster for the Western left and for anybody in the Global South suffering from the continued imperialism you help enable by fighting the last genuine critics of genocidal US policies that are left in the West. You CIA tool, you psyop casualty, you neocon bootlicker.

              • @LittleLordLimerick@lemm.ee
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                51 year ago

                I don’t call someone a tankie based on where they post, but in what they post. If you don’t want to be called a tankie, then don’t post tankie shit.

                • AcidSmiley [she/her]
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                  151 year ago

                  If showing solidarity with victims of Amerikan imperialism makes me a tankie, i’ll prefer that over being a white supremacist warmonger who justifies the bombing of brown people in “shithole countries” like literally everybody who calls people a tankie online.

            • ElHexo [comrade/them]
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              241 year ago

              impose communism through the use of force to repress dissent.

              All societies impose force to repress dissent (other than anarchist communes I guess, where force is mediated by norms)

              • @ghost_of_faso2@lemmygrad.ml
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                151 year ago

                even anarchist communes have use of force, those moltov cocktails being thrown at police officers arent non-violent and even recent projects like CHAZ/CHOP had para-police forces setup within them to hold order togther

      • sooper_dooper_roofer [none/use name]
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        161 year ago

        I used to think that Marx was overrated because I never needed to read him but holy shit it’s clear that 95% of the populace cannot form coherent ideologies without being taught them

      • Dr. Jenkem
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        51 year ago

        Tankie usually refers to Marxism-Leninism (as well the ideologies that derived from it such as Maoism). But there are communist ideologies that don’t derive from ML such as Orthodox Marxism, trotskyism, libertarian Marxism, bulshevism, etc.

        • @ghost_of_faso2@lemmygrad.ml
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          281 year ago

          Tankie usually refers to Marxism-Leninism

          no it usually refers to whatever the fuck the person posting it seems to think it is, there is not a coherent label for it.

          Orthodox Marxism, trotskyism, libertarian Marxism, bulshevism, etc.

          Oh cool, which societies use those?

          • Dr. Jenkem
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            31 year ago

            no it usually refers to whatever the fuck the person posting it seems to think it is, there is not a coherent label for it.

            Why are you letting libs define everything? You and I both know they’re dumbasses and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

            Oh cool, which societies use those?

            Anyone could have said the same to Marx about communism at any point in his life, as he died before the October revolution.

            • @ghost_of_faso2@lemmygrad.ml
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              161 year ago

              Anyone could have said the same to Marx about communism at any point in his life, as he died before the October revolution.

              the difference is you named a bunch of dead ideologies that will never be revived, ML is literally the only form of marxism still flourishing

                • @ghost_of_faso2@lemmygrad.ml
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                  151 year ago

                  how is that speculation, its material; Im only interested in ideologies with proven merit.

                  Im willing to take a chance of a synthesis on a new idea, but it has to actually offer people something.

                  • Dr. Jenkem
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                    41 year ago

                    It’s speculation because you don’t know what the future holds. And just because you’re not interested in a particular ideology or don’t think it has merit doesn’t make it any less communist.

                    My only point is that words do in fact have meaning, Marxist-Leninism is not synonymous with communism. Therefore, one can be anti-tankie without being anti-communist.

                  • Dr. Jenkem
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                    31 year ago

                    Nope, just trying to have a rational, good faith discussion.

            • o_d [he/him]
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              101 year ago

              Why are you letting libs define everything? You and I both know they’re dumbasses and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

              Yeah I’m sure everyone in the lemmyverse is using the word tankie to refer to those of us who support the 1956 Soviet intervention in Hungary /s

        • geikei [none/use name]
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          131 year ago

          How would Trotskyism be any less “authoritarian” Than marxism leninism ? Also almost every claims on some level to be “orthodox marxist”, lenin most of all and MLs as well

      • @LittleLordLimerick@lemm.ee
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        41 year ago

        Telling someone to read Marx to understand modern day socialism is like telling someone to read Newton to understand modern day physics tbh.

        • @ghost_of_faso2@lemmygrad.ml
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          1 year ago

          Newton to understand modern day physics

          I mean yeah, if you want to understand the devolopment of physics you are required to understand the foundations it was built on, this is basic study.

          Its like telling someone they should read the bible if they want to be christian, or telling someone they should read the instruction manual if they want to actually know what the terms they are using mean.

        • axont [she/her, comrade/them]
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          1 year ago

          Yeah, you’re right. It’s also important to read Lenin’s works on imperialism to understand modern socialism. It’s important to study Mao as well.

      • @LittleLordLimerick@lemm.ee
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        91 year ago

        Why does AES always seems to end up with forced labor camps? I don’t remember forced labor camps being a central part of socialist ideology…

        A country can call itself socialist, that doesn’t make it so.

            • BurgerPunk [he/him, comrade/them]
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              1 year ago

              Sure you can have an opinion, but if its about something you know nothing about, and have not investigated then it is worthless. Not just to other people, but to yourself as well

            • Awoo [she/her]
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              1 year ago

              What have you actually done to help socialism then?

              Are you a union organiser? Are you in a union? Which one? What party are you in? What projects do you support? What are you actually doing as a socialist? Other than voting for a liberal party every few years I mean.

              • @LittleLordLimerick@lemm.ee
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                21 year ago

                My partner is a teacher and is in a union. We are both active in organizing and supporting. There are no unions for the industry I work in, so I work with hers.

                • Awoo [she/her]
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                  1 year ago

                  Then you should know better than this bullshit, because you would be working with several of us. There is definitely not a teaching union that is not filled with MLs, education in particular has the highest number of us.

                • @ghost_of_faso2@lemmygrad.ml
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                  151 year ago

                  ]

                  if your political activism starts and ends with being in a union you are useless to any socialist project, you even elevate yourself above others because of your union membership; liberal complancy, please boss uwu be nice and give us a raise.

                  • @LittleLordLimerick@lemm.ee
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                    31 year ago

                    Well your political activism starts and ends with posting Lenin quotes in online discussion boards, so I don’t know that you are in any position to be calling other people useless.

            • person above wasnt claiming to be the sole arbiters, dumb comment

              il take the largest communist projects in the world, the word of millions + people who study marxism and practice it in reality everyday over a liberal who would struggle to define the word ‘socialism’ and whos political education starts and ends with there high school history class + 10 years spent on /r/politics